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Author Topic: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels  (Read 1760 times)

Edward Petruescu

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2018, 04:38:45 pm »

I apologize for the late responses, I was expecting to receive an email whenever someone responded but I never did. Its also has been a while since I stopped visiting this forum daily (about a year or so).
The current building we are in is a vaulted multipurpose room with semi-smooth plaster finish which reflects sound as if it a school gym. The new building is pretty close, design-wise, to the multi-purpose room and I want to be proactive with fixing it. I was thinking of using USG acoustical plaster for the ceiling in order to reduce general floor noise (and speaker) and I'm not sure if there is a plaster that can go on the wall or not. Most of what I've seen go on the ceiling except for a company in the UK that sprays plaster on the walls too. The wall that I want to use the acoustic treatment on is the front wall (when looking at the stage).

What are your guys' experiences with systems from USG or Baswana?
I'm going to order some samples tomorrow from these two companies but if you guys have any other recommendations I'm open to it.
Do any of you know of someone in the Sacramento CA area that consults with stuff like this? I'd gladly pay for some consulting though it is out of my wallets capability to hire a company to actually do any acoustic treatments.

The attached picture is the building that I mocked up in a 3d program. (Sanctuary area of 40' x 40' and stage of 10-12' by 40'). The knee wall at the stage is just to hide the wires/monitors/screens/stuff. (my current plan)
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2018, 05:50:11 pm »

I apologize for the late responses, I was expecting to receive an email whenever someone responded but I never did. Its also has been a while since I stopped visiting this forum daily (about a year or so).


For some reason that feature has not worked for a year or more.

With stage monitors and a full band your room will at least need some sound absorption on the back wall.

Are you going to use acoustic drums or electronic?

Edward Petruescu

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2018, 06:36:15 pm »

For some reason that feature has not worked for a year or more.

With stage monitors and a full band your room will at least need some sound absorption on the back wall.

Are you going to use acoustic drums or electronic?

I was thinking the same thing. Acoustic plaster would be nice on the back wall but I'm not sure if it can be done. Otherwise, I was thinking of installing sound absorption panels along the walls of the stage.

The drums will be acoustic and I will definitely need to get an enclosure/shield for them (not enough room in our current building)
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2018, 08:20:03 pm »

I was thinking the same thing. Acoustic plaster would be nice on the back wall but I'm not sure if it can be done. Otherwise, I was thinking of installing sound absorption panels along the walls of the stage.

The drums will be acoustic and I will definitely need to get an enclosure/shield for them (not enough room in our current building)

In a room of that size go with electronic drums, the "drums are too loud" problem will be instantly taken care of and no one in congregation will care or notice about the drum "sound" other than it's not too loud. The stage will also look better without a big fish bowl in the middle of it.

 

David Allred

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2018, 09:42:48 pm »



Data:
125: 0.55, 250: 0.20, 500: 0.28, 1000: 0.65, 2000: 0.88, 4000: 0.86, NRC 0.50
Is the 125 number a typo?  Seems out of place, unless it is because of the density and mass of it  The 250 and 500 number are pretty bad, and the 1000 is not great.  Seems like this product would suck the presence  out of the room and still have too  much energy  in the 250 to 1k region that it is weak in addressing.
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Edward Petruescu

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2018, 01:50:36 am »

In a room of that size go with electronic drums, the "drums are too loud" problem will be instantly taken care of and no one in congregation will care or notice about the drum "sound" other than it's not too loud. The stage will also look better without a big fish bowl in the middle of it.

We currently have an acoustic drum set and no one complains about their loudness though I have an issue with it being picked up by the singers' mic (mainly the symbols). I would prefer an electric one for sure and I've never actually thought about how it would look with a drum shield.
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Edward Petruescu

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2018, 02:02:14 am »

Is the 125 number a typo?  Seems out of place, unless it is because of the density and mass of it  The 250 and 500 number are pretty bad, and the 1000 is not great.  Seems like this product would suck the presence  out of the room and still have too  much energy  in the 250 to 1k region that it is weak in addressing.

It is not a typo. Since I have no scale of what the numbers mean, I thought the numbers looked pretty good, but now that you pointed it out, they look to be quite lacking.  It can only be a half inch thick on drywall but over a stronger surface, it can be up to an inch thick.
 @ 1"
125: 0.04, 250: 0.22, 500: 0.60, 1000: 1.01, 2000: 1.07, 4000: 1.00, NRC: 0.75

BASWA has a lot better numbers but they require a mineral fiber board to be attached to the drywall than with plaster applied over it. It would definitely be a better system and I'll look into the cost difference.
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David Allred

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2018, 11:46:18 am »

It is not a typo. Since I have no scale of what the numbers mean, I thought the numbers looked pretty good, but now that you pointed it out, they look to be quite lacking.  It can only be a half inch thick on drywall but over a stronger surface, it can be up to an inch thick.
 @ 1"
125: 0.04, 250: 0.22, 500: 0.60, 1000: 1.01, 2000: 1.07, 4000: 1.00, NRC: 0.75

BASWA has a lot better numbers but they require a mineral fiber board to be attached to the drywall than with plaster applied over it. It would definitely be a better system and I'll look into the cost difference.

My explanation is not correct, but it might help you interpret the numbers.
Compare to ratios and percentages. 
In the above, 1000hz vs 500hz is 10:6 or 500hz  absorption is 60% effective compared to 1000hz effectiveness.
Again, not actually true... but at a rating of 1.00 (really good) it is like an open window is letting sound at that frequency out of the room never to be hear from again.  The window is proportionally closed when it comes to other frequencies.  In this case 78% closed at 250hz, 40% closed at 500hz.
As a wall covering, it is self-limiting in that it is not a spreadable effect like panels.  Though I suppose you could use it like crown molding to wrap the room so that it looks structural.  The height would be determined by the rooms need.  This still doesn't address the problem of if the room's problem resonances don't line up with effectiveness of the coating material.

Good luck.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2018, 01:13:23 pm »

I have worked with an acoustics company that has done some rather big projects. So I am sure that they are WAY out of your price range. I have been shocked at how much of a difference it can make to have someone who really knows what they are doing. I was in a house (being built for a Billionaire) and the entrance-way/foyer (if that is what it is called) was probably bigger then my house. I expected it to sound like an echo chamber and very lively (usually annoyingly so) but it didn’t at all and there wasn’t any visible treatment that I could see. To have them involved before the plans are made is really the way to do it. But someone who is good can steer you in the right direction to make the changes that will work for how the room will be used.

In the long run a good acoustic expert can save you money. Because it will cost a lot to do it wrong and then try to correct it with the sound system and then redo everything all over again. Or have to live with the problems, which if they are bad enough will affect attendance.

Notice I said how the room is used. I cringe every time someone says the acoustics in this room are very good or very bad. That statement is incomplete, there needs to be a qualifier. It may be very bad for amplified music but it may be great for a pipe organ. Or it may be great for an orchestra but not again amplified music. But the hard part may be that you will want the amplified music to be tamed (I hope you understand what that means) but you probably want the congregational singing to be a little bit more lively.
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Jason Glass

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Re: Acoustic Plaster instead of Acoustic Panels
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2018, 02:19:47 pm »

Looking at your photo, it appears that you would get much more cost effective results by preventing sound from reaching troublesome reflective surfaces and by breaking up wavefronts than you will coating those surfaces in "stuff". What do I mean? I mean placing acoustic absorbent and diffusion panels on the flat back wall, and most importantly installing multiple acoustic "clouds" and heavy fabric vertical baffles throughout the ceiling peak.

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=BxBaW_nCGI7ctQXp1qKQDw&q=acoustic+cloud&oq=acoustic+cloud&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.3..0l5.5044.5330..6750...0.0...102.205.2j1......0....1.......0..0i131.4lfHKA7CWnA



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