ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: One PC: Can I run Dante, remote control for mixer and remote-app for WL?  (Read 2048 times)

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454

I've tried googling this but I believe I'm not hitting the correct search-strings.

Anyway. Is this possible through one switch?

The info I got from the Audienate webpage says this is possible, if I use a switch with QoS, so Dante will get first priority.

The reason I'm asking that a colleague of mine who does a fair bit of installations told me that they always separate Dante out to it's own network, and said I could run into some stability issues if running remote WL software on the same network/switch as dante. Could this be that he's talking about an unmanaged switch, where all traffic is treated equally?

What I'm trying to accomplish is having Sennheisers Wireless systems manager and Show cue systems where my outputs are Dante into a CL/QL, and the remote software for the QL/CL, on the same switch?
Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3507
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services

How many devices are running Dante?

What else is on the network?

I use one simple switch to run Dante from a mixer to a MacBook for recording and also for wireless access to the mixer with an iPad. No internet connection. Works fine.

I think Audinate expects much larger numbers and give guidance based on that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454

How many devices are running Dante?

What else is on the network?

I use one simple switch to run Dante from a mixer to a MacBook for recording and also for wireless access to the mixer with an iPad. No internet connection. Works fine.

I think Audinate expects much larger numbers and give guidance based on that.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


For this example it will only be my latop into the QL/CL, so two units. The link between the RIO-rack and desk will be a dedicated line running from the primary port of the desk. I'm currently running my laptop into the secondary port of the desk.

In the future I'd want to add my laptop in the same "line" as the RIO/FOH/Monitor desk so I can trigger tracks from my latop and mons and foh can just add the dante stream to the inputs.


And another question. If I want to run reduntant between a mon and foh console from a RIO-rack. Can I just use a managed switch where foh, mons, rio and my laptop "meet", and run primary and secondary from this switch into each console and the rack, and one cat-cable from my latptop into the switch?

Sorry all the newb questions. Dante and this kind of networking is very new to me.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 04:21:50 pm by Miguel Dahl »
Logged

David Buckley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 565

QoS is only necessary when the going gets tough so the switch knows which stuff to prioritize.  If you're running gigabit Ethernet and not too many Dante channels, then the going will never get tough, and any old switch will do.  But if you have a switch with QoS then that staves off the inevitable.

Add to that that the QoS is applied on the outgoing port on the switch.  So if your arrangement has your laptop with one feed into the switch, and then the  Dante traffic goes to the mixer on one switch port, and the link to the wireless control is on another switch port, and the mixer control is on a third switch port (ie separate etehrnet ports for Dante and control on the mixer) then QoS never gets a chance  to come into play, because there is never a conflict of type of traffic on any one outgoing switch port.

The point where there might be conflict on your setup is on the laptop ethernet port.  Though if the laptop is gigabit Ethernet, it will very probably be OK, but you should test it first under realistic Dante loads before committing to live.  Audinate say that Gigabit Ethernet is required for 32x32 @ 48KHz, so if your channel count is significantly below that then there should be no issues.  I suspect (but don't know) that the VSC driver enforces itself as a priority device on the local OS stack.
Logged

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454

QoS is only necessary when the going gets tough so the switch knows which stuff to prioritize.  If you're running gigabit Ethernet and not too many Dante channels, then the going will never get tough, and any old switch will do.  But if you have a switch with QoS then that staves off the inevitable.

Add to that that the QoS is applied on the outgoing port on the switch.  So if your arrangement has your laptop with one feed into the switch, and then the  Dante traffic goes to the mixer on one switch port, and the link to the wireless control is on another switch port, and the mixer control is on a third switch port (ie separate etehrnet ports for Dante and control on the mixer) then QoS never gets a chance  to come into play, because there is never a conflict of type of traffic on any one outgoing switch port.

The point where there might be conflict on your setup is on the laptop ethernet port.  Though if the laptop is gigabit Ethernet, it will very probably be OK, but you should test it first under realistic Dante loads before committing to live.  Audinate say that Gigabit Ethernet is required for 32x32 @ 48KHz, so if your channel count is significantly below that then there should be no issues.  I suspect (but don't know) that the VSC driver enforces itself as a priority device on the local OS stack.

So, in other words I should be perfectly fine with running monitoring of WL, 8 ch of Dante from laptop to console, and remote operation of console, though a unmanaged switch, but to me more secure it should be managed? The communication between the QL5 and RIO is done through the primary port of the console. I know that I need to test it first.
Logged

David Sturzenbecher

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1756
  • So. Dak.
    • Sturz Audio

So, in other words I should be perfectly fine with running monitoring of WL, 8 ch of Dante from laptop to console, and remote operation of console, though a unmanaged switch, but to me more secure it should be managed? The communication between the QL5 and RIO is done through the primary port of the console. I know that I need to test it first.

This will be zero problems at all for a gigabit switch.  Add 500 more channels and then you might see some issues. 
Logged
Audio Systems Design Engineer
Daktronics, Inc.
CTS-D, CTS-I
AES Full Member

Erik Jerde

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1047

Iíve got a system that is used for Dante monitoring, Shure monitoring (2x ULXDQ4), Sennheiser monitoring, Roland REAC configuration for IEMs, and occasional Dante recording using DVS.  Has 3 physical gigabit nics.  1 for general production, one for Dante primary, one for secondary.

Works great, no problems.  Running via Cisco SG300s properly configured.

Youíll be fine.  Just make sure thereís no EEE on your switch.
Logged

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454

Iíve got a system that is used for Dante monitoring, Shure monitoring (2x ULXDQ4), Sennheiser monitoring, Roland REAC configuration for IEMs, and occasional Dante recording using DVS.  Has 3 physical gigabit nics.  1 for general production, one for Dante primary, one for secondary.

Works great, no problems.  Running via Cisco SG300s properly configured.

Youíll be fine.  Just make sure thereís no EEE on your switch.

I don't know how to reply "open", without quoting someone..

So, can I ask for tips about how one would do this, it's a step ut from what I initially asked, but I'm trying to puzzle all the information together..

FOH, mons and streaming. Lets say 72 channels-ish. Redundant. Remote view of 20ish channels of WL through sennheiser wireless systems manager, and also 8 or 16 channels from laptop into the dante network.

My guess is dedicated switches for primary and secondary (redundant) (managed/unmanaged?), but then how do I get dante from my laptop into the primary and secondary dante-network?
Logged

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6922
  • Audio Plumber

I don't know how to reply "open", without quoting someone..

It's possible to just edit out anything you don't want to quote, but we don't recommend removing everything because without any quoted information, as time goes by and the thread may get long, there is no way for people to know what you are referring to without a quote.
Quote
So, can I ask for tips about how one would do this, it's a step ut from what I initially asked, but I'm trying to puzzle all the information together..

FOH, mons and streaming. Lets say 72 channels-ish. Redundant. Remote view of 20ish channels of WL through sennheiser wireless systems manager, and also 8 or 16 channels from laptop into the dante network.

What are you describing here? FOH console with 72 inputs, Mon console with same, Streaming a mix off FOH or a 3rd console? Monitoring 20ch of RF is not an issue, it is very low bandwidth. Having 16ch of playback from your laptop via Dante brings you to 88 channels into the 64ch Dante port on the console. You will need 2 MY16 Dante expansion cards to be able to connect that many channels.

Quote
My guess is dedicated switches for primary and secondary (redundant) (managed/unmanaged?), but then how do I get dante from my laptop into the primary and secondary dante-network?

Yes, 2 switches minimum as you will have 3x2 connections at FOH (console, MY card 1 and MY card 2) plus your computer into the primary network. You may want 2 more on stage if you have a console and 2 or more Rio I/O devices on stage, plus all your RF receivers you want to monitor. Dante Virtual Soundcard does not support the secondary network, so your computer playback will be on the primary network only.

Mac
Logged

Miguel Dahl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 454

It's possible to just edit out anything you don't want to quote, but we don't recommend removing everything because without any quoted information, as time goes by and the thread may get long, there is no way for people to know what you are referring to without a quote.
What are you describing here? FOH console with 72 inputs, Mon console with same, Streaming a mix off FOH or a 3rd console? Monitoring 20ch of RF is not an issue, it is very low bandwidth. Having 16ch of playback from your laptop via Dante brings you to 88 channels into the 64ch Dante port on the console. You will need 2 MY16 Dante expansion cards to be able to connect that many channels.

Yes, 2 switches minimum as you will have 3x2 connections at FOH (console, MY card 1 and MY card 2) plus your computer into the primary network. You may want 2 more on stage if you have a console and 2 or more Rio I/O devices on stage, plus all your RF receivers you want to monitor. Dante Virtual Soundcard does not support the secondary network, so your computer playback will be on the primary network only.

Mac

I realize that my arbitrary number of 72 channels + 16 from laptop was not close to reality. I know that DVS does not support redundancy. So will this mean that my tracks from the DVS are limited to the primary network only? If the primary goes down the show is screwed?

What I'm kind of asking about is can I run a primary and secondary through two switches, where I have one FOH console, one MON console and one streaming console, while also having remote monitoring of 20x WL-units. The remote monitoring would just be into one laptop located at preferably monitor position. And also 16 channels from laptop @ monitor position.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: One PC: Can I run Dante, remote control for mixer and remote-app for WL?
¬ę Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 05:28:58 pm ¬Ľ


Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.057 seconds with 23 queries.