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Author Topic: Upgrade danley sm80  (Read 11257 times)

Jeremy Young

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2018, 01:17:04 pm »

Geert, the RCF spec sheet for the TT-25 CXA lists a max SPL of 133 dB. 
The DSL SM80 spec sheet lists max SPL as 134dB. 

What information do you have that supports your claim?  Have you A/B compared the two cabinets?  Do you own or have you worked with DSL SM80's? 

How is the 60x60 pattern on the RCF box when used on a pole versus the DSL 80x80 pattern?  Have you arrayed them for wider coverage and did you notice much interference?  I would think a higher max SPL rating and larger area of coverage (DSL) would mean the SM80 would be the top performer but I am comparing spec sheet single numbers from different manufacturers here (dangerous game that is) which is why I'm interested in your first-hand experiences.
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada
High Efficiency - High Fidelity - High Portability

Geert Friedhof

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2018, 02:11:07 pm »

Follwing this thread i got the Danley EASE GLL files, and compared them to the CXA.

There is a 3dB rms difference (AES) in favour of the CXA.

Also compare the balloon graph. Same freq as SM80 (4600Hz)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 02:25:21 pm by Geert Friedhof »
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2018, 02:34:10 pm »

I have not arrayed them, and i turn them in slighly (10-15 degrees) when the stage is wider than 20 feet.

Overhere in Europe we don't get much Danley.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2018, 05:07:18 pm »

Follwing this thread i got the Danley EASE GLL files, and compared them to the CXA.

There is a 3dB rms difference (AES) in favour of the CXA.

Also compare the balloon graph. Same freq as SM80 (4600Hz)

I am having trouble interpreting these graphs. I can believe the CXA is more efficient at frequencies around 100 Hz but with the horn loading, the SM80 plays louder from say 300 to 2000 Hz than most 2-way boxes its size for a given voltage input.
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2018, 05:51:41 pm »

Yes, but the SM80 has 35.6dbV, which converts roughly to 450W at 8 ohm, while the CXA is 1100W rms.

The CXA is 15", the SM80 is 12" According to EASE, the RMS spl is 127dB@35.6dBV for the SM80, while the CXA should do 130.5dB@1100W.

I still think it would be a very interesting shootout.
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Jeremy Young

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #75 on: July 11, 2018, 07:47:27 pm »

Thanks for the info Geert.  So in your eyes a +3dB difference in output is enough to eat something for breakfast?  Less than I'd get excited about, but that's really up to the buyer to determine whether +3dB of theoretical output for a box that looks like a monitor-wedge on it's side is worth the upgrade.

Not to sound like a Danley fanboy (I own some SM80's, so I'm sure owner's bias can be applied to my perspective), but I wonder how the impedance of the SM80 (although nominally 8-ohm but is well above 8-ohm for much of the operating range) plays into the RMS wattage for those figures in EASE. 

I admit that if this EASE data is from real-world measurements, then it's as real-world as it gets and I can be ignored.  I've never worked with EASE but I use Danley's direct software often.

However, for me to carry this thought through in the presence of more experienced minds than mine, the SM80 spec sheet shows that the impedance is above 10-ohms from about 600hz to 5khz (a very important range for vocals). 

Danley's rated sensitivity is derived from 2.83v input, and max output SPL is based on the recommended wattage at the nominal impedance (400 watts = 26dBw) added to the sensitivity (102dB).  As I'm sure you know (but others reading this may not), 2.83v into 8-ohms = 1 watt; but 2.83v into 16-ohms (around 1.5khz) is 0.5 watts; meaning one 'could' add another 2-3dB in max output in that range.  If I've done my math wrong please correct me.

Again, this is clear evidence for why single-numbers cannot be applied to these sorts of things and why I was interested whether you'd actually put these boxes against each other before claiming one was vastly superior to the other. I've never seen or used the RCF box.

Yes it is a 12", but it's horn-loaded in a sealed box.  The RCF box in discussion is not (bass-reflex), so it would be inaccurate to compare the two based on midrange-driver diameter alone.

In use, I find the pattern control in the mid-range of the SM80 to be very helpful in keeping the midrange mud out of the microphones when the stage is close to the back of the main loudspeakers.  I own a small production company, but I just used a pair of SM80's in an outdoor field with 100' to the furthest listeners, trim height approx 8' to the bottom of the box with 8-degrees downward tilt.  Range of live entertainment throughout the (windy) day ending with a 4-piece British Invasion cover band.

My peak-hold lights on my loudspeaker processor indicated that my peaks were 6dB away from the RMS limiters (I had 1,600-watt-into-8-ohm amplifiers on each loudspeaker, so peaks could still breeze past the RMS limiters by another 6dB before amp clipping) and it was nice and clear throughout the listening area with very consistent response.  Rock levels it was not, but the client didn't want rock levels for this family event.  The BE was very happy with the system.
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Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada
High Efficiency - High Fidelity - High Portability

Peter Morris

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #76 on: July 11, 2018, 08:01:53 pm »

Here are the Ease SPL plots - there is a double IG4T that is not obvious.

There is also a plot of 4 x dB Tech T8s
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Jeffrey Knorr - CobraSound.com

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #77 on: July 11, 2018, 08:26:25 pm »

I finally had a chance to listen to the RCF TTL6-A speakers in person over the weekend.  A long-time client of mine is using them as his new A-rig. As deployed in the linked photo gallery, the speakers sounded VERY good and provided good GBF used in a live bluegrass situation.  The rig had ample headroom and still sounded crystal clear in the parking area all the way above and behind the main seating area.  I am thoroughly impressed with this rig and would highly recommend it to anyone looking for an upgrade in this class.

My client is based in the MD area so if you'd like to take a listen yourself, please contact me.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/T95P3C3eTgJZrXEy5

Jeff
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #78 on: July 11, 2018, 08:28:43 pm »

I finally had a chance to listen to the RCF TTL6-A speakers in person over the weekend.  A long-time client of mine is using them as his new A-rig. As deployed in the linked photo gallery, the speakers sounded VERY good and provided good GBF used in a live bluegrass situation.  The rig had ample headroom and still sounded crystal clear in the parking area all the way above and behind the main seating area.  I am thoroughly impressed with this rig and would highly recommend it to anyone looking for an upgrade in this class.

My client is based in the MD area so if you'd like to take a listen yourself, please contact me.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/T95P3C3eTgJZrXEy5

Jeff

Do you sell roofs?  You should.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #79 on: July 11, 2018, 09:13:55 pm »

Here are the Ease SPL plots - there is a double IG4T that is not obvious.

There is also a plot of 4 x dB Tech T8s

Thanks for posting these and the other plots in the post before.  I noticed that the single IG4T has a listed 129.7 spl and a smooth response from 100hz or so up to around the crossover point with a downwards tilt after. Basically how I like to set my pa up. I thought in my listening test it sounded very good in the 100 to 300 hz range and the speaker with no EQ sounded fine.  The two stacked has some interaction around the crossover frequency but I'm guessing this is the two horns interacting and it may sound better than it looks.  Any chance there is data on the Yorkville ef500p? Like to see it's listed spl as I thought they were very close but the ef500p coverage/response was different :-/ .
I'm going to download Ease this weekend if I can squeeze the time in.

Kindest regards;
Douglas R. Allen
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Upgrade danley sm80
« Reply #79 on: July 11, 2018, 09:13:55 pm »


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