ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Paddle Antennas  (Read 7294 times)

Ike Zimbel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1057
  • I'm not a newbie, I just play one on the internet!
    • Zimbel Audio Productions
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 06:39:10 PM »

Guys, just place a pair of these
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/a-1031-u
flat on the floor at either side of the pulpit, up to 30' apart for diversity A&B, and connect them to your rig via low-loss cables such as 9913F7 or LMR-400, up to 100' long. Simple, rock solid RX, and invisible. Gaff taped to the floor or under a rug or carpet work fine. Even under nonmetallic set pieces, stairs, or risers works brilliantly.

If you doubt it, know that every Tonight Show done outside of 30 Rock for the last 4 years has used this method, under my direction. Even live to air from the Super Bowl. Twice. It works.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I would call this a "flooral arrangement" ;). Jason, do you take the mic stand mounts off them to make them flatter?
Logged
~Ike Zimbel~
Wireless frequency coordination specialist and educator.
Manufacturer's Representative (Canada)
Radio Active Designs
Pro Audio equipment repair and upgrades.
~416-720-0887~
ca.linkedin.com/pub/ike-zimbel/48/aa1/266

Mark Cadwallader

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1338
  • Helena, Montana USA
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 06:42:40 PM »

It is supposed to look like (and sound like) it does on TV and in the movies. "If they can make it happen, why can't you?"
Logged
"Good tools are expensive, but cheap tools are damned expensive."

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 06:44:05 PM »

I would call this a "flooral arrangement" ;). Jason, do you take the mic stand mounts off them to make them flatter?
Yes, I do!

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Jerome Malsack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1402
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2018, 09:39:24 AM »

And for the weddings do you color coordinate the antenna to hide in the color scheme or wall paint.   

And another crazy question.  With the ground being so close to the antenna elements is there a preferred elevation off the ground for best reception.  Just as we would want the 1/4 wave length from metal objects.  Do you want the 1/4 wave length above the ground or earth. 
Logged

Jason Glass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 918
    • CleanWirelessAudio.com
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2018, 01:09:47 PM »

And for the weddings do you color coordinate the antenna to hide in the color scheme or wall paint.   

And another crazy question.  With the ground being so close to the antenna elements is there a preferred elevation off the ground for best reception.  Just as we would want the 1/4 wave length from metal objects.  Do you want the 1/4 wave length above the ground or earth.
Like just about everything in RF engineering, this is a compromise, and it's far outside of the intended use of the antenna's design. Of course placing them flat on the floor will reduce their gain and alter their pattern, but I have found that it works well, without delving deeper into any benefit of spacing them away from the surface. Of course, I don't think it would work very well on a metallic surface, and in that case I'm sure that spacing would be critical.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Lyle Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1558
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2018, 08:44:50 AM »

I have some interesting Russian antenna books, written in the early '90s when the USSR had fallen.

HF/LF Antennas with all elements below ground (so as to survive a large blast).  They just aren't very efficient.  Add some great stonking Russian transmitter tubes, and who cares?

There were also interesting VHF/UHF directional antenna designs cut from foil and laid under wallpaper or carpet.

Antenna ingenuity is a wonderful thing.
Logged

Don Boomer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 340
    • RF Venue
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2018, 10:23:56 AM »

Like just about everything in RF engineering, this is a compromise, and it's far outside of the intended use of the antenna's design. Of course placing them flat on the floor will reduce their gain and alter their pattern, but I have found that it works well, without delving deeper into any benefit of spacing them away from the surface. Of course, I don't think it would work very well on a metallic surface, and in that case I'm sure that spacing would be critical.

Pardon my spam, but I just wanted to point out that “magnetic” antennas like the RFV Spotlight Ike refered to earlier are reasonable immune from the capacitive reactance that conventional “electrical” antennas (paddles, whips, helicals) suffer from when placed on the ground. They also aren’t bothered when placed on a metal deck (as they sit flat on the floor).
Logged
Don Boomer
Senior applications engineer
RF Venue, Inc.

Joris Jans2

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 85
    • Vester Theater Techniek
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2018, 12:07:35 PM »

from Shure's website: http://blog.shure.com/wireless-systems-and-antenna-placement/

Quote
Locate diversity receiver antennas a suitable distance apart. For diversity reception, the minimum separation for significant benefit is one-quarter wavelength. The effect improves somewhat up to a separation of about one wavelength. Diversity performance does not change substantially beyond this separation distance. However, in some large area applications, overall coverage may be improved by further separation. In these cases one or both antennas may be located to provide a shorter average distance to the transmitter(s) throughout the operating area.
Logged

Henry Cohen

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1220
  • Westchester Co., NY, USA
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2018, 01:57:59 PM »

from Shure's website: http://blog.shure.com/wireless-systems-and-antenna-placement/
Quote
Locate diversity receiver antennas a suitable distance apart. For diversity reception, the minimum separation for significant benefit is one-quarter wavelength. The effect improves somewhat up to a separation of about one wavelength. Diversity performance does not change substantially beyond this separation distance . . .

This advice is mathematically correct as far as mitigating dropouts due to multipath [cancellation], but ignores the fact that a spatial separation of only 1/4 wavelength puts the antennas in each others' near fields and thus will cause other problems. Always best to strive for at least one wavelength separation (at the lowest frequency of interest), more if possible.
Logged
Henry Cohen

CP Communications    www.cpcomms.com
Radio Active Designs   www.radioactiverf.com

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2018, 12:23:23 PM »



This advice is mathematically correct as far as mitigating dropouts due to multipath [cancellation], but ignores the fact that a spatial separation of only 1/4 wavelength puts the antennas in each others' near fields and thus will cause other problems. Always best to strive for at least one wavelength separation (at the lowest frequency of interest), more if possible.
So rule of thumb anything 300 MHz or up should be good with 1 m of separation.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

Logged
Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2018, 12:23:23 PM »


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.034 seconds with 26 queries.