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Author Topic: Paddle Antennas  (Read 3647 times)

Ike Zimbel

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 06:39:10 pm »

Guys, just place a pair of these
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/a-1031-u
flat on the floor at either side of the pulpit, up to 30' apart for diversity A&B, and connect them to your rig via low-loss cables such as 9913F7 or LMR-400, up to 100' long. Simple, rock solid RX, and invisible. Gaff taped to the floor or under a rug or carpet work fine. Even under nonmetallic set pieces, stairs, or risers works brilliantly.

If you doubt it, know that every Tonight Show done outside of 30 Rock for the last 4 years has used this method, under my direction. Even live to air from the Super Bowl. Twice. It works.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
I would call this a "flooral arrangement" ;). Jason, do you take the mic stand mounts off them to make them flatter?
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~Ike Zimbel~
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 06:42:40 pm »

It is supposed to look like (and sound like) it does on TV and in the movies. "If they can make it happen, why can't you?"
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Jason Glass

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 06:44:05 pm »

I would call this a "flooral arrangement" ;). Jason, do you take the mic stand mounts off them to make them flatter?
Yes, I do!

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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2018, 09:39:24 am »

And for the weddings do you color coordinate the antenna to hide in the color scheme or wall paint.   

And another crazy question.  With the ground being so close to the antenna elements is there a preferred elevation off the ground for best reception.  Just as we would want the 1/4 wave length from metal objects.  Do you want the 1/4 wave length above the ground or earth. 
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Jason Glass

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2018, 01:09:47 pm »

And for the weddings do you color coordinate the antenna to hide in the color scheme or wall paint.   

And another crazy question.  With the ground being so close to the antenna elements is there a preferred elevation off the ground for best reception.  Just as we would want the 1/4 wave length from metal objects.  Do you want the 1/4 wave length above the ground or earth.
Like just about everything in RF engineering, this is a compromise, and it's far outside of the intended use of the antenna's design. Of course placing them flat on the floor will reduce their gain and alter their pattern, but I have found that it works well, without delving deeper into any benefit of spacing them away from the surface. Of course, I don't think it would work very well on a metallic surface, and in that case I'm sure that spacing would be critical.

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Lyle Williams

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2018, 08:44:50 am »

I have some interesting Russian antenna books, written in the early '90s when the USSR had fallen.

HF/LF Antennas with all elements below ground (so as to survive a large blast).  They just aren't very efficient.  Add some great stonking Russian transmitter tubes, and who cares?

There were also interesting VHF/UHF directional antenna designs cut from foil and laid under wallpaper or carpet.

Antenna ingenuity is a wonderful thing.
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Don Boomer

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2018, 10:23:56 am »

Like just about everything in RF engineering, this is a compromise, and it's far outside of the intended use of the antenna's design. Of course placing them flat on the floor will reduce their gain and alter their pattern, but I have found that it works well, without delving deeper into any benefit of spacing them away from the surface. Of course, I don't think it would work very well on a metallic surface, and in that case I'm sure that spacing would be critical.

Pardon my spam, but I just wanted to point out that “magnetic” antennas like the RFV Spotlight Ike refered to earlier are reasonable immune from the capacitive reactance that conventional “electrical” antennas (paddles, whips, helicals) suffer from when placed on the ground. They also aren’t bothered when placed on a metal deck (as they sit flat on the floor).
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Joris Jans2

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2018, 12:07:35 pm »

from Shure's website: http://blog.shure.com/wireless-systems-and-antenna-placement/

Quote
Locate diversity receiver antennas a suitable distance apart. For diversity reception, the minimum separation for significant benefit is one-quarter wavelength. The effect improves somewhat up to a separation of about one wavelength. Diversity performance does not change substantially beyond this separation distance. However, in some large area applications, overall coverage may be improved by further separation. In these cases one or both antennas may be located to provide a shorter average distance to the transmitter(s) throughout the operating area.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2018, 01:57:59 pm »

from Shure's website: http://blog.shure.com/wireless-systems-and-antenna-placement/
Quote
Locate diversity receiver antennas a suitable distance apart. For diversity reception, the minimum separation for significant benefit is one-quarter wavelength. The effect improves somewhat up to a separation of about one wavelength. Diversity performance does not change substantially beyond this separation distance . . .

This advice is mathematically correct as far as mitigating dropouts due to multipath [cancellation], but ignores the fact that a spatial separation of only 1/4 wavelength puts the antennas in each others' near fields and thus will cause other problems. Always best to strive for at least one wavelength separation (at the lowest frequency of interest), more if possible.
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Henry Cohen

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Jay Barracato

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Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2018, 12:23:23 pm »



This advice is mathematically correct as far as mitigating dropouts due to multipath [cancellation], but ignores the fact that a spatial separation of only 1/4 wavelength puts the antennas in each others' near fields and thus will cause other problems. Always best to strive for at least one wavelength separation (at the lowest frequency of interest), more if possible.
So rule of thumb anything 300 MHz or up should be good with 1 m of separation.

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Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Paddle Antennas
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2018, 12:23:23 pm »


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