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Author Topic: Danley Demo - Cocoa FL - May 16th  (Read 4794 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Demo - Cocoa FL - May 16th
« Reply #70 on: June 01, 2018, 08:25:08 am »

I think you left out a very important word there. Shouldn't it read - a single J3 can take the place of 16 or more line arrays Elements.

A line array is made up of multiple elements or boxes. One box does not a line array make.

And while I am at it the one thing I have really liked when using GOOD line arrays is the lack of sound behind the boxes. How do the Danley boxes behave behind them?
[/quote
Yes, I should have said "elements".

Pattern control with large horns not only controls the sound behind, but also to the sides and below/above (out of the pattern of course), so there is less spillage on stage.

Line arrays, due to their nature, put a large "donut" pattern around the middle of the line.  This puts a lot of energy on or near the stage, which means more garbage getting into the mics, so that muddies up the sound.  Then the musicians can't hear the monitors as well (assuming non IEM setup), so they ask for more monitor level, which muddies up the sound even more, and pushes closer to feedback etc.

Having a quiet stage is a good thing.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Danley Demo - Cocoa FL - May 16th
« Reply #71 on: June 01, 2018, 09:17:55 am »

I think you left out a very important word there. Shouldn't it read - a single J3 can take the place of 16 or more line arrays Elements.

A line array is made up of multiple elements or boxes. One box does not a line array make.

And while I am at it the one thing I have really liked when using GOOD line arrays is the lack of sound behind the boxes. How do the Danley boxes behave behind them?

Yes, I should have said "elements".

Pattern control with large horns not only controls the sound behind, but also to the sides and below/above (out of the pattern of course), so there is less spillage on stage.

Line arrays, due to their nature, put a large "donut" pattern around the middle of the line.  This puts a lot of energy on or near the stage, which means more garbage getting into the mics, so that muddies up the sound.  Then the musicians can't hear the monitors as well (assuming non IEM setup), so they ask for more monitor level, which muddies up the sound even more, and pushes closer to feedback etc.

Having a quiet stage is a good thing.

I am not in any way saying that line arrays are perfect.

With the Line arrays I have had experience with (except for one) I have never experienced what you are referring to. The one that I really didnít like was the EAW with the speakers on the sides of it, that one had the donut effect badly.

The one issue I did have was in one room because of how it had to be deployed and the shape of the room the sound hit the back wall and came back onto stage louder than I had heard from any other system. But the clarity and coverage was really good. And the slap back was livable.

I am going to again be on a d&b audiotechnik line array next Friday and I hopefully will have some time to walk around and listen for the behavior that you are describing. The first time I heard this install (outdoor venue) I was really impressed. And I am not easily impressed.     
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 09:49:06 am by Kevin Maxwell »
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John L Nobile

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Re: Danley Demo - Cocoa FL - May 16th
« Reply #72 on: June 01, 2018, 09:37:40 am »


As for a more "manageable" solution for smaller companies and gigs, the SH96HO is worth considering.

I thought so as well. Makes sense for an install though I do get questioning looks from BE's and a few "not enough rig" comments before hearing it. An 8 box array/side really killed the sightlines in the room I oversee. The 96's are almost invisible in comparison. And are so much nicer to mix on.

But a rental company has to provide what's in demand and providing a box from a company that no one up here seems to know is not going to pay the bills.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Demo - Cocoa FL - May 16th
« Reply #73 on: June 01, 2018, 10:18:21 am »

I am not in any way saying that line arrays are perfect.

With the Line arrays I have had experience with (except for one) I have never experienced what you are referring to. The one that I really didnít like was the EAW with the speakers on the sides of it, that one had the donut effect badly.

The one issue I did have was in one room because of how it had to be deployed and the shape of the room the sound hit the back wall and came back onto stage louder than I had heard from any other system. But the clarity and coverage was really good. And the slap back was livable.

I am going to again be on a d&b audiotechnik line array next Friday and I hopefully will have some time to walk around and listen for the behavior that you are describing. The first time I heard this install (outdoor venue) I was really impressed. And I am not easily impressed.   
Here is a "kinda easy" way to experience it.

Take the line array and turn it 90*.  So that it is wider than tall.  You can do this with the "stick" lines as well.

YES, totally unusable, but this is for demo purposes.

Try to get it where the center of the boxes is somewhere around ear height.  Sitting on road cases for example.

Do this outside-free of reflections (so they don't influence what you hear).

Now play music and walk from one end of the array to the other.

You should hear the buildup in the middle. ie the "donut".

If you have a tall mic stand, take some measurement "above" the array (which would normally be the side of the array)

Do this at the ends and the middle.  You will see the build up in the middle-again the donut.  This is where all of the energy is combining (think of it as power alley with subs).

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Marc Sibilia

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Re: Danley Demo - Cocoa FL - May 16th
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2018, 11:17:10 am »

You should hear the buildup in the middle. ie the "donut".

If you have a tall mic stand, take some measurement "above" the array (which would normally be the side of the array)

Do this at the ends and the middle.  You will see the build up in the middle-again the donut.  This is where all of the energy is combining (think of it as power alley with subs).

If you want to see a visual representation of the "donut" Ivan is referring to, take a look at Don Keele's paper:

The Full-Sphere Sound Field of Constant Beamwidth Transducer (CBT) Loudspeaker Line Arrays
AES 2003

There are some nice graphics in there that illustrate the effect.

Marc
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