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[Scott Holtzman]

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

3 systems essentially, while I could do it with one guy I would want two.

The sad part is somebody will probably undervalue themselves and work with this budget.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

Does anyone thing this is a fair market in Austin and Vancouver?

[Luke Geis]

I see 4 systems. 1-2 for the band, 1 for ceremony and another for the cocktail.

I say 2 systems for the band because 4 tops and 4 subs is likely a heck of a lot more than a room filled with 100-250 people will need. At least with 95% of the weddings I have seen and done with a band this size.

A HIGHLY unrealistic undervaluing of the artists and the service. I add the artist to this because they probably didn't get paid much better?

Is there someone who will do it? Yes, and it will be worth every penny. I would do the whole gig myself simply because the ceremony and cocktail system are so simple to set up and run. The band system is not too complicated. It does sound however as if the artist intends on running it himself? Still charging labor to be there, standby time or not, I'm doing all the work. 1pm to 11:30pm is 10.5 hrs. plus breakdown and travel, so roughly a 12hr day not including travel. Lets assume 1 hr round trip, so a 13hr. day. Depending on how some do it ( hourly vs. day rate + OT after 10 hrs. ) you could be between $600-800 just in labor alone for one guy. Two guys........ Well if one is a pee-on, perhaps $250 for them, but your still looking at easily $600 in labor.

The big kicker, there is at least three systems to set up, which means a full day to travel, set, run and strike. That is a $600 day just for me to be there. The equipment alone will set you back $700 - $900, so I would say that $1,500 is a more realistic budget. Even for those doing $300-$400 days should still be pulling $1,200 for this gig.

I just sent out a quote for an out of state show with 1 system for the band only. $5,500 was the rough estimate, and that was shooting on the low side with a little love in it ( It is a band who hires me exclusively ).

[Justice C. Bigler]

The very first freelance gig I ever did (back in 2005-ish), was for a small concert at my local music school. I had an 01V96v2 mixer, and some mics. I subrented two tops, and two monitors, some cheap ass American DJ shit. Did the set up and ran the show myself. I charged $500 and made about $150 off that gig.

What that guy wants is easily a $1,500 job, maybe closer to $2,000 if it's a really upscale venue and you need to wear a suit. 

[Scott Olewiler]

This looks like a rental only with setup/delivery/tear down situation.

"Band" is 4 inputs.  8 hrs of labors for one guy.

4 hrs driving (assuming an hr drive one way) 2.5 hrs of set up at most , 1.5 hrs of tear down at most. $75/hr.  Subtract $25/hr for overhead and for the weekend warrior this gig equates to a $100k/yr job per hour of actual work.

[Nathan Riddle]

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

3 systems essentially, while I could do it with one guy I would want two.

The sad part is somebody will probably undervalue themselves and work with this budget.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

Does anyone thing this is a fair market in Austin and Vancouver?

Same link?

$1200 sounds reasonable with labor. $600 is if he picks the gear up and drops it off.

[Steve Crump]

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

3 systems essentially, while I could do it with one guy I would want two.

The sad part is somebody will probably undervalue themselves and work with this budget.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

Does anyone thing this is a fair market in Austin and Vancouver?

I will call your low budget and raise you by one story alike.

One of my friends has been working full time for the past 30 years in a Motown/Beach music, wedding/corporate party etc, band. He told me that they had been hired for the past couple years to do a New Years party at a event hall, 1500 guest.
He said the event hall hired the sound and lighting company.
He said he was so impressed by the sound company that he has been using them when it is part of his contract.
He said the company has three cube vans loaded up with QSC powered equipment, from his description it must be the "K" series. The sound company provided all sound gear plus lighting and has driving just over an hour to each show for him for $450.00, and I did ask, "$450.00, for lighting and sound??". They do stay and run the show also...They cover the Upstate SC, Northeast GA and a corner of the North Carolina area. Honestly I am probably going to get their name from Johnny and sub any project I don't want to them.

[scottstephens]

Scott,

   Here in Southeastern Ohio, there is a local "company" that does outdoor concerts for the city every week with 3 VRX and 1 double 18 aside, and an X-32 and 6 generic monitors for $450 per show.  I can see charging less for consistent and close work, but there is NO WAY we can compete with that. Of Course, we have insurance, workman's comp. etc.... They don't have any coverage. I don't know how that works. They all must think that the city's policy is good for everything.
So, I have no doubt that someone will cover that job in Austin.

Scott

[Dave Pluke]

... if it's a really upscale venue and you need to wear a suit.

That would be my concern.  With that many systems requested, I envision a Wedding Planner that will want skirts on every tripod, along with squeaky clean gear and crew (and, probably, restrictive hours for setup and strike).

Dave

[Kemper Watson]

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

3 systems essentially, while I could do it with one guy I would want two.

The sad part is somebody will probably undervalue themselves and work with this budget.

http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,167402.msg1544447/topicseen.html#new

Does anyone thing this is a fair market in Austin and Vancouver?

I did one of these early on. PM me for details

[Steve Litcher]

Sadly, in some markets, that's about the norm. Here in Madison, WI, that would be considered to be a "good gig." It's always shocking to me when I hear/see/read about the amounts folks get in other parts of the country. I wish Madison would support those types of rates/fees.

[Luke Geis]

I can see how a weekend warrior would love this sort of thing. If you don't depend on this work for a living, then often a $300 day is better than $120 at your day job.

I used to be that guy, but got sick of doing these gigs and having nothing to show for it. I started looking at it as what is MY TIME worth and what is the gear worth. Then i also had to listen to stories where I was basically working my butt off for free and then hear that the videographer showed up for 1 hour and got $1k....... Oh hell no.......

So now I am more stern about my pricing and what do you know, I am making more money, my demand has gone up and I can afford to buy what I consider to be more professional gear!  It goes to show that if you find value in what you do, you can get paid real money to do it.

The guys showing up with full rigs for $450 can't possibly have a sustainable business. Even if two guys show up for $15 and hour that is $30 and hour for an 8 hour day. Easily $250-$300 in labor at that point, which means the gear is only making $150-$200. This doesn't factor in any other costs. That gear would have to go out 5 days a week ever week to make enough money to replace it as needed.

My current rental model gets most all of my equipment paid for within 20 rentals. I can get that number of rentals done within a year no problem. This means that the next 9 years of expected service will be all profit. My labor is no longer a joke to me. I am not beating myself up for free anymore. My minimum just to be there is $400 these days. This is still on low side, but the wife is happy!

In the end, if the artists is making $450 for his time, we should making very close to that for our time, and then we should get paid what the equipment is worth. For a weekend warrior $600, for a real company, $1,200 is more realistic.

[James Feenstra]

I'd quote this out at around $2k + tax in Toronto, he's got a post up for a Victoria, BC show as well and the pricing out west is going to be really close to the same, potentially higher as there's less competition there

renting it all from <local music store that has a low budget rental department> *might* land him under $600, but that's with no tech, and no transportation.

It's ambitious, that's for sure, might be a great gig for some guy with 13 speakers in his garage, but definitely not a 'pro' level job by any means

[Jeremy Young]

I saw the Victoria post and chuckled to myself.  Here in Victoria, the posting/budget is about right for a 17-year old with some rented gear from L&M working with no insurance/WCB and paying no taxes.  I don't know what the competition is like in Toronto, but on Vancouver Island we're flooded with musicians who consider themselves sound engineers.  That end of the market is saturated and I have no interest in it whatsoever today, but at one time or another I would have taken that gig, provided a great rig, worked the whole thing myself and had a smile on my face.  I'm sure they'll find someone though, just don't know what kind of quality they'll get.

[James Feenstra]

I saw the Victoria post and chuckled to myself.  Here in Victoria, the posting/budget is about right for a 17-year old with some rented gear from L&M working with no insurance/WCB and paying no taxes.  I don't know what the competition is like in Toronto, but on Vancouver Island we're flooded with musicians who consider themselves sound engineers.  That end of the market is saturated and I have no interest in it whatsoever today, but at one time or another I would have taken that gig, provided a great rig, worked the whole thing myself and had a smile on my face.  I'm sure they'll find someone though, just don't know what kind of quality they'll get.

Toronto market is flooded with sound companies and DJ companies all bidding themselves to the bottom, at all levels of the game. All the big guys are here, and there's a ton of mid size and small guys too....

That's why I'm on tour right now (In Vancouver) instead of perpetuating the race to the bottom for this summer. I'll leave that to my account managers haha

[Ray Aberle]

I've worked with the guy once.

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