ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Down

Author Topic: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)  (Read 3280 times)

Dennis Wiggins

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 757
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2018, 08:57:30 am »

... UL listed distro for an APC UPS... on eBay all day long for $50.00  They are about the form factor of a snake stage end.

Scott-

I'm looking for a non-rack mount unit to replace my array of homemade steel quad boxes. Please post a link (or picture) of what you are referring to.

-Dennis
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 09:03:33 am by Dennis Wiggins »
Logged

Sam Costa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
  • 408-849-6420
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2018, 10:33:03 am »

I know it is done every day, and I used to go to great lengths to help with power.  I came to an epiphany that I am just enabling the venue that booked in more than they can handle.

The best way to handle this is to educate your clients.  They will start to make power a non-negotiable item and you will be insured of the power you need without incurring the liability and potential injury.

Scott - I agree. 3 of the larger venues (halls) for these festivals has actually installed a 50amp panel dedicated to the stage. I only wished all of them did that. Most of the people running these halls are first generation Portuguese  immigrants who own farms or dairies and have no idea how much power is required to run an event with sound and lighting.

Looks like it's time to start educating these old timers..  :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 10:50:04 am by Sam Costa »
Logged
Being a productive member of society and encouraging others to do the same.

Sam Costa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
  • 408-849-6420
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2018, 10:37:50 am »

Sam, if you are outside the USA (Iím not sure if thatís what you mean with a Portuguese festival) that may reduce the liability concerns, but arc-flash is a risk no matter what flag you fly.  30 years ago it was fairly typical for bands to come in and macerate the house breaker panel, but it wasnít a good idea then, and itís an even worse idea now due to the additional legal concerns.

I think Tim mentioned that you could probably run your big rig on two circuits - one for subs, and one for everything else.  That sounds right to me, assuming youíre not sharing those circuits with an air conditioner, fridge, heater, etc. 

Remember that turning down your rig by just 3dB cuts your power consumption in half.  If you add another amp and pair of subs, you can run at your hypothetical original volume still at half power consumption due to additional efficiency with more speaker driver area. 

The trick here is doing some testing - during rehearsal, watch your mixer level meters while you crank up the level until either your speakers are at full power or you trip a breaker.  There are a lot of variables making the above experiment not super precise - i.e. recorded music will behave very differently than live music, but you will have some reference for when you are near the edge.

Tom -
I live in the US. (California) and all of these Portuguese festivals happen in all sorts of halls/venues throughout the state.
Logged
Being a productive member of society and encouraging others to do the same.

Sam Costa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
  • 408-849-6420
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2018, 10:47:55 am »

For 6 or 7 years, i was the Soundco for a Portuguese band out of Montreal.
Festivals and weddings, around 80 a year.
Not uncommon for a wedding on Saturday, and to be the headliner closing a 3-day festival on Sunday.
Toronto, Kingston, Montreal, Ottawa, Gatineau. All over the place.
400 to 3,000 punters. It is a huge community, and they love their music.
And yes, live tie-in was "standard". Did a lot of "stuff" in  very old church basements, and reception halls with questionable looking panels. Safer on my own distro and tails.
Chris.

Chris -
That's exactly it. They are large weddings/festivals/etc.. We literally have a festival or dance for every occasion. And every hall always seems to compete to see who brings in the most people, the loudest band, the largest church and parade..

Here's one of the festivals. This one is the annual Soccer Festival, takes place in May, behind the hall in a bullfight arena. That was our band on stage a few years ago. I could have used more gear for this one.

Logged
Being a productive member of society and encouraging others to do the same.

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1738
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2018, 12:25:24 pm »

Chris -
That's exactly it. They are large weddings/festivals/etc.. We literally have a festival or dance for every occasion. And every hall always seems to compete to see who brings in the most people, the loudest band, the largest church and parade..

Here's one of the festivals. This one is the annual Soccer Festival, takes place in May, behind the hall in a bullfight arena. That was our band on stage a few years ago. I could have used more gear for this one.



Been there, done that.
We got booked for a bullfight at the Bell Center, but the animal rights folks got wind of it, and put the kybosh on the whole show.
Never done a bullfight. I would have treated the gear like it was a rodeo. I've done a few of those.
Got to admit, those folks sure know how to put meat on a firepit......
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Stephen Swaffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2298
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2018, 12:28:53 pm »


....  but I have consulted with several licensed electricians in my area and they have all said that this is the simplest way to connect my distribution panel.


Simple vs safe.  The question was posed last week in a discussion I was involved in-"if someone dies or is seriously injured while doing live work, how will your reason for doing the work live sound being spoken to a judge in a court of law?"  Food for thought.
Logged
Steve Swaffer

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4284
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2018, 01:20:28 pm »

Scott-

I'm looking for a non-rack mount unit to replace my array of homemade steel quad boxes. Please post a link (or picture) of what you are referring to.

-Dennis
Here's probably what Scott is talking about:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-American-Power-Conversion-MXA101-10-Port-PDU-Power-Distribution-Unit/173156772076?epid=2255419263&hash=item2850f2a8ec:g:vdAAAOSwUbdagjFk


Here's an inexpensive construction-style spider box:
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434713_200434713?isSearch=164137

Note that units like this still need to be plugged into a receptacle - that is not hardwired into a panel - with an appropriate OCPD device protecting that receptacle.
Logged

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

  • Classic LAB
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 859
  • Gauteng, South Africa
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2018, 01:31:40 pm »

Remember that turning down your rig by just 3dB cuts your power consumption in half.  If you add another amp and pair of subs, you can run at your hypothetical original volume still at half power consumption due to additional efficiency with more speaker driver area. 

You need to turn it down by 6dB(either on the fader or in SPL), 3dB only relates to power measurements.

Halving the system's power consumption decreases the power used by 3 dB but the SPL output by 6dB which is half the pressure in pascals.
Logged
Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1659
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2018, 02:20:14 pm »

You need to turn it down by 6dB(either on the fader or in SPL), 3dB only relates to power measurements.

Halving the system's power consumption decreases the power used by 3 dB but the SPL output by 6dB which is half the pressure in pascals.
Jean-Pierre,

A reduction of 3dB in power results in a 3dB reduction of dBSPL.
Halving the pressure in Pascals will result in a 6dB decrease in SPL, as will halving voltage- but the fader and SPL meter are using dB, not Pa or V.

Art

Logged

Sam Costa

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
  • 408-849-6420
Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2018, 04:12:11 pm »

Here's probably what Scott is talking about:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/APC-American-Power-Conversion-MXA101-10-Port-PDU-Power-Distribution-Unit/173156772076?epid=2255419263&hash=item2850f2a8ec:g:vdAAAOSwUbdagjFk


Here's an inexpensive construction-style spider box:
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434713_200434713?isSearch=164137

Note that units like this still need to be plugged into a receptacle - that is not hardwired into a panel - with an appropriate OCPD device protecting that receptacle.

Yup, I've got one of those "construction style" distro boxes as well for the halls that have the 50amp plug/receptacle on or near the stage area. Work great.
Logged
Being a productive member of society and encouraging others to do the same.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: MORE POWER?! :-O (Electrical, that is)
¬ę Reply #29 on: April 26, 2018, 04:12:11 pm ¬Ľ


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 7   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.07 seconds with 22 queries.