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Author Topic: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!  (Read 7515 times)

Luke Geis

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Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« on: April 10, 2018, 01:01:12 pm »

So Yamaha has released a new line of speaker called the DZR. Whats is unique about them is that they are Dante enabled and their 12" model states 139db peak SPL!!!!! The 3 way 15" models boasts 143db peak!!!!! The question is how did they manage to blast the competition away in SPL with only a modest amount of power? 139db is 3db more than the next best thing and for the next best thing to do what it says would have to have a sensitivity of 104db.

While the 3 way box sounds amazing on paper, I was bummed when I read that it utilizes a passive crossover for the mid/high network. Another thing I thought odd was keeping the rest of the line crossed over around the typical 1.7khz range. So is it truly a ground breaking speaker, or are they cheating the numbers hard core?
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2018, 02:12:23 pm »

Hey Luke,

Looking at their graphs, the 3-way 15" model has a port tuning around 60Hz.

So, I ran some numbers on a top-end 15" driver (Beyma 15P1200Nd) in a ported box tuned to 60Hz. I played with the cabinet size so it'd have a response that's flat down to 60Hz. To get 143dB at 60Hz, I had to ramp it up to 400v (RMS) input. That's rather a lot of power*.
As a consequence, you'd be in serious danger of launching the cone across the room - it'll try to move 35mm one way. For that driver, the linear range is 9.5mm one-way. Damage occurs at 26mm.

The situation improves with a 4th order 100Hz highpass filter - you get 25mm one-way travel at 110Hz.

It's still not going to sound good, though, even if you could get an amplifier that'll manage that voltage swing.

So, no, they're not going to do those SPLs full-range. It's entirely possible that the speaker has an exceptionally high sensitivity at the mid-high crossover point, and dropping a lot of power in there might get a reading of 143dB.
I don't consider it a particularly honest way of rating speakers, but that's the state of the industry these days.

* A driver with higher sensitivity would need less power, but the amount of movement required of a cone to produce a given SPL is fixed. That particular unit comes in around 98dB@2.83v.

Chris
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2018, 02:35:45 pm »

A 40# 10" with the HF of a DSR would be a winner in my book.  Yeah, the numbers are specsmanship, but that's the way of the world these days.  Interesting that they're still using a 2"VC on the bigger boxes while trying to compete on output with various 3" boxes from JBL, RCF and the varsity folks.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 03:07:45 pm »

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/japan/ja/products/speakers/dzr_dxs_xlf/index.jsp

They exist.  At least in the home country and on Yamaha Commercial Audio's "global" site but are not yet listed on the USA pages.

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/news_events/newsrelease/2018/0410_50_dzr_dxsxlf_czr_cxsxlf.jsp#
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Michael Thompson

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2018, 07:48:26 pm »

So Yamaha has released a new line of speaker called the DZR. Whats is unique about them is that they are Dante enabled and their 12" model states 139db peak SPL!!!!! The 3 way 15" models boasts 143db peak!!!!! The question is how did they manage to blast the competition away in SPL with only a modest amount of power? 139db is 3db more than the next best thing and for the next best thing to do what it says would have to have a sensitivity of 104db.

While the 3 way box sounds amazing on paper, I was bummed when I read that it utilizes a passive crossover for the mid/high network. Another thing I thought odd was keeping the rest of the line crossed over around the typical 1.7khz range. So is it truly a ground breaking speaker, or are they cheating the numbers hard core?

I'm not sure there is an MI box that the stated max SPL figures are possible with.  The amplifier power numbers are just as skewed on many products. 
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2018, 08:56:15 pm »

I'm not sure there is an MI box that the stated max SPL figures are possible with.  The amplifier power numbers are just as skewed on many products.

Not sure any very pro big name box can match that.
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Peter Morris

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2018, 02:45:00 am »

Hey Luke,

Looking at their graphs, the 3-way 15" model has a port tuning around 60Hz.

So, I ran some numbers on a top-end 15" driver (Beyma 15P1200Nd) in a ported box tuned to 60Hz. I played with the cabinet size so it'd have a response that's flat down to 60Hz. To get 143dB at 60Hz, I had to ramp it up to 400v (RMS) input. That's rather a lot of power*.
As a consequence, you'd be in serious danger of launching the cone across the room - it'll try to move 35mm one way. For that driver, the linear range is 9.5mm one-way. Damage occurs at 26mm.

The situation improves with a 4th order 100Hz highpass filter - you get 25mm one-way travel at 110Hz.

It's still not going to sound good, though, even if you could get an amplifier that'll manage that voltage swing.

So, no, they're not going to do those SPLs full-range. It's entirely possible that the speaker has an exceptionally high sensitivity at the mid-high crossover point, and dropping a lot of power in there might get a reading of 143dB.
I don't consider it a particularly honest way of rating speakers, but that's the state of the industry these days.

* A driver with higher sensitivity would need less power, but the amount of movement required of a cone to produce a given SPL is fixed. That particular unit comes in around 98dB@2.83v.

Chris

But ... the 15" driver is in a short horn; combined with the directivity of the horn and the horn loading (as guess above 200 hz) it may well have an extra 6 dB of sensitivity over some of its operating range.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2018, 03:21:16 am »

But ... the 15" driver is in a short horn; combined with the directivity of the horn and the horn loading (as guess above 200 hz) it may well have an extra 6 dB of sensitivity over some of its operating range.

True, the short horn will help higher up in the range. Still, even with subwoofers covering 100Hz and down, the 15" will run out of grunt before it gets close to 143dB.

The CZR range (passive versions) have numbers that are much closer to what I'd expect.

Chris
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 08:21:47 am »

.....While the 3 way box sounds amazing on paper,

The word you wanted to use was looks amazing..

A high sensitivity mid cone can get an easily achieved +4db "gain" over a narrow bandwidth with simple horn loading. Max measured SPL is fairly useless as an uqualified standalone number.

« Last Edit: April 12, 2018, 08:26:57 am by Jim McKeveny »
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Re: Yamaha DZR fact or fiction!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2018, 08:21:47 am »


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