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Author Topic: Yorkville AP3400 specs  (Read 4810 times)

Darren S Stagg

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Yorkville AP3400 specs
« on: March 25, 2018, 01:23:12 PM »

To preface my question.... I have a couple of older PV2600 power amps that I run bridged into 4 ohms. I’ve been using them this way since I bought them new probably 15 years ago. I should clarify that the specs in the manual at that time indicated that bridging into 4 ohms was a valid option, as well as running into 2 ohms per side in stereo. However newer models or newer versions of the manual at least, only showed down to 4 ohms per side and 8 ohms for bridge mode.

Now my question... the AP3400 shows specs for 4 ohms per side and for 8 ohms bridged. Has anyone ever tried running it into 4 ohms bridged? I’m wondering if the amp is quite capable of this but the specs are downplayed somewhat to increase the safety margin.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2018, 02:28:24 PM »

What would be the purpose of running them in that mode?

Much easier to answer your question if we understood the reason for the change after 15 years.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Keith Broughton

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2018, 02:36:35 PM »

To preface my question.... I have a couple of older PV2600 power amps that I run bridged into 4 ohms. I’ve been using them this way since I bought them new probably 15 years ago. I should clarify that the specs in the manual at that time indicated that bridging into 4 ohms was a valid option, as well as running into 2 ohms per side in stereo. However newer models or newer versions of the manual at least, only showed down to 4 ohms per side and 8 ohms for bridge mode.

Now my question... the AP3400 shows specs for 4 ohms per side and for 8 ohms bridged. Has anyone ever tried running it into 4 ohms bridged? I’m wondering if the amp is quite capable of this but the specs are downplayed somewhat to increase the safety margin.
As I recall, the AP3000 was rated to 2 ohms/ch and 4 ohms bridge but the later model 3400 was not designed to do that.
I suggest it would not be advisable to run the 3400 at 4 ohms bridged.
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David Allred

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2018, 03:22:31 PM »

As I recall, the AP3000 was rated to 2 ohms/ch and 4 ohms bridge but the later model 3400 was not designed to do that.
I suggest it would not be advisable to run the 3400 at 4 ohms bridged.

I just looked at a 90's Yorville catalog.  Keith is correct. 
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Richard Turner

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2018, 03:24:29 PM »

http://www.vtcproaudio.com/v44.html

Same guts more or less ap3400 had a side ducted fan as opposed to front mount when it became the ap4040. They also had a propensity to grenade in weird and wonderful ways (eg popping 8 pairs of output transistors at once) . If it does fail send it back to its birthplace in Pickering ontario. Most local service techs would not have seen one for several decades.

fun fact 1st digit of serial number is last year of manufactuer date (guess the decade) and next 2 digits are month. eg 410 would be october 1994/2004/2014
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Darren S Stagg

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2018, 04:34:18 PM »

Thanks all... not planning a “change” as such. I use one PV2600 to drive a pair of tops in parallel (thus 4 ohms) and the other 2600 to drive one 218 loaded sub. This does basically every indoor gig I’ve ever needed. For a smaller outdoor show I’d like to add a second set of tops and I was thinking of using the 2nd 2600 for this ... and was hoping to drive the sub with the 3400. The 3400 is just an extra amp I have at home driving my rec room system. Before buying another piece of gear I wanted to check with you guys to see if I could utilize this one instead. It would be very infrequently used so tough to justify an investment. Perhaps I would just rent something for those times instead.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2018, 05:15:55 PM »

Two tops per side is rarely a good idea unless they're specifically designed to be arrayed, and even then...

What I'd do is this:
- AP3400 in stereo for the tops,
- PV2600 bridged into the sub
- Consider adding another sub and using the second PV2600 for it.

You get stereo mains, can still add another pair of tops if you really think it's a good idea, and there's the option to add another sub easily.

What're the tops?
Perhaps better cabinets (instead of more of them) is the way to do it.

Chris
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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2018, 06:09:20 PM »

I had a handful of Yorkville amps in the nineties. I used an AP4020 bridged 4 ohms on subs and it performed well. IIRC It's sister model the 4040 had a similar power rating but was only rated for use to 8 ohms.  If the 3400 is rated that same way I'd not suggest loading it lower than recommended.

To still make use of the amp could you power each woofer individually with the amp in stereo? Not as much power but still better than nothing.


To preface my question.... I have a couple of older PV2600 power amps that I run bridged into 4 ohms. I’ve been using them this way since I bought them new probably 15 years ago. I should clarify that the specs in the manual at that time indicated that bridging into 4 ohms was a valid option, as well as running into 2 ohms per side in stereo. However newer models or newer versions of the manual at least, only showed down to 4 ohms per side and 8 ohms for bridge mode.

Now my question... the AP3400 shows specs for 4 ohms per side and for 8 ohms bridged. Has anyone ever tried running it into 4 ohms bridged? I’m wondering if the amp is quite capable of this but the specs are downplayed somewhat to increase the safety margin.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2018, 06:52:31 PM »

Two tops per side is rarely a good idea unless they're specifically designed to be arrayed, and even then...

What I'd do is this:
- AP3400 in stereo for the tops,
- PV2600 bridged into the sub
- Consider adding another sub and using the second PV2600 for it.

You get stereo mains, can still add another pair of tops if you really think it's a good idea, and there's the option to add another sub easily.

What're the tops?
Perhaps better cabinets (instead of more of them) is the way to do it.

Chris
To expoubd on expanding, unless you are trying to widen the coverage you will actually reduce the amount/quality of output from your mains.  Two speakers covering the same space will interfere with each other and like two people pushing on opposite sides of a door the energy will cancel out.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Keith Broughton

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2018, 07:00:02 PM »

Two speakers covering the same space will interfere with each other and like two people pushing on opposite sides of a door the energy will cancel out.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
While I get your point, it's a rather large sweeping statement that "the energy will cancel out"  ;)
That said, I do agree that multiple speakers to cover one area is not  best practice.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2018, 07:19:29 PM »

While I get your point, it's a rather large sweeping statement that "the energy will cancel out"  ;)
That said, I do agree that multiple speakers to cover one area is not  best practice.
I was trying to simplify.  I saw that analogy and thought it served the pedigogical purpose at hand, to educate on the subject of comb filtration.

Once the basics are established we can dive deeper and explain the cancellation won't be complete and vary depending on location and frequency.

Keith, if you have a better way to broach by all means.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Darren S Stagg

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2018, 08:46:22 PM »

It’s looking more and more like I’ll just have to rent a system - I was just trying to make the best use of the pieces I already own.

If I run the 3400 in stereo, it’s rated at 750 per side... I’m currently getting 1300 per side, although not stereo which I’ve never seen much point in anyway.

I run one 218 sub box in the middle of the stage area because I don’t want separated subs - I understand how that causes cancellation.

Those 2 18” speakers work together and don’t cancel each other out so I was hoping the same idea would apply to two sets of tops per side... in the days before line arrays we certainly used multiple standard boxes on each side of the stage and in some cases even stacked as well as side by side. I thought, I guess incorrectly, that cancellation wasn’t as big an issue once you were out of sub frequencies.

I’m using Peavey SP5G tops which are rated at 800 watts each. Running the Amps like I’ve been doing allows me lots of overhead... I don’t run the system full throttle so I feel my speakers are well within tolerance.

I appreciate the input from all you guys and I’ll happily stand corrected - if my idea would be more of a detriment I’ll certainly put it to bed.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2018, 09:21:05 PM »



It’s looking more and more like I’ll just have to rent a system - I was just trying to make the best use of the pieces I already own.

If I run the 3400 in stereo, it’s rated at 750 per side... I’m currently getting 1300 per side, although not stereo which I’ve never seen much point in anyway.

I run one 218 sub box in the middle of the stage area because I don’t want separated subs - I understand how that causes cancellation.

Those 2 18” speakers work together and don’t cancel each other out so I was hoping the same idea would apply to two sets of tops per side... in the days before line arrays we certainly used multiple standard boxes on each side of the stage and in some cases even stacked as well as side by side. I thought, I guess incorrectly, that cancellation wasn’t as big an issue once you were out of sub frequencies.


That less than 3 db you are getting by bringing the amp is inaudible and not worth the stress on the amp.

Additionally because of the lower impedance you are losing more signal.

Lower frequencies couple easier than higher frequencies.  For signals to couple they have to be within a 1/2 wavelength distance.  This is very easy to achieve at lower frequencies, impossible at high frequencies without speakers designes to array that have special waveguides.   

Subwoofer interaction can be used to your advantage to direct low frequency away from the performance space.

I suggest you download modeling software and take a look at different configurations.

On a personal note I used to run my dual 18 JBL subs in 4 ohm bridge mode.  Recently I rewired the speakers to dual input and that presents an 8 ohm load to the amplifier.   In theory that represents more than a 3db reduction in input power.  In practice it lost the strained sound at the limit, the amps run cooler and the bass seems tighter and more controlled.  Some would attribute that to the increased damping factor.  Not one person commented on the change in respect to system output.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Patrick Cognitore

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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2018, 11:38:59 PM »

If I run the 3400 in stereo, it’s rated at 750 per side... I’m currently getting 1300 per side, although not stereo which I’ve never seen much point in anyway.
The power the amps are actually capable of really depends on the exact specs. The specs for the more modern PV2600 show output at 1khz, which gives little indication as to how much power you actually get at sub frequencies.

Conversely, the specs on the older Yorkies amp I had did give ratings for full range, 20hz to 20khz response.

Keep in mind all of these ratings only are relevant if you're running the amps to full output. At any output below max it's irrelevant. And if you need to be at max output then you don't have enough rig for the gig anyway.

Regarding using 2 tops per side, it's usually less than ideal. But we've all done it at some point. Stacking them vertically is worth trying if you're looking for more output and don't need additional horizontal dispersion. It likely will sound worse than a single, but it'll probably be louder. You may then have an issue with the highs/mids outrunning the output of the subs.

Another option is to run dual PA setup, if you have enough outputs on your mixer to make that work. For example, run one top per side and the center stacked sub for your instruments. Then a second set of tops just for vocals.
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Re: Yorkville AP3400 specs
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2018, 11:38:59 PM »


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