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Author Topic: digital mixer re-boots?  (Read 4197 times)

Weogo Reed

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digital mixer re-boots?
« on: March 19, 2018, 10:26:04 am »

Hi Folks,

A friend has had his digital mixer require a re-boot during a show twice in the past couple years, and he is ready to move to another brand.

Digital mixers are glorified computers with audio-specific connectors and software.
They aren't connected to the internet and can't be used for
much of anything other than mixing, so
aren't subject to a lot of the perils of regular computers.
But they are still computers...

When I was regularly using a Yamaha 01V96 there were times when it didn't load completely, or loaded, but was wonky in operation.
A re-boot, or sometimes two, would clear this. 
Usually this was on initial start-up, so not a big deal.
I do remember a couple of times losing control of the mixer and
the only way to get it back was a re-boot during a song break.

In the early days of the Mackie DL1608, firmware updates
were coming pretty regularly(as were IOS updates),
sometimes fixing some bugs while introducing others, and
I can remember re-booting mine at least a couple times.
The kinks got worked out and now it is super-stable.

Early on with the Mackie DL32R, there were maybe a couple times
I had to re-boot to get a new firmware upgrade to really take.
Again, the kinks were worked out and the three I'm using now are super stable.

A local venue has an A&H QU board, and only once have I ever had to re-boot it.
This was during startup.

Another venue has a Midas MR18 which I don't think has ever needed a re-boot, other than a firmware update.

All of these mixers are on a UPS with at least basic surge protection, so power is fairly good.


How about your mixers?
Re-boots during initial start?  During a show?  How often?

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
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Tim Weaver

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2018, 11:13:54 am »

I toured with a DL32>M32core>M32 foh setup for a while. All were switched on with one power switch, and sometimes one desk or the other would not get any input from the DL32. The desk looked and functioned fine otherwise, but would not send or receive audio. A reboot would fix it.

I've had VI6's freeze the surface a couple of times. The audio kept working and you could reboot the surface with no interruption of audio, which was kind of cool.

The only times I have to reboot my CL5's are when changing IP addresses.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2018, 01:57:55 pm »

Only desk I've needed to reboot due to a showtime failure was an Avid SC48 that had a flaky TDM jumper, and that was a soft boot.  Final fix was physical disassembly of the PCI bus extender card cage, removal and re-seating of the mix engine cards, HUB48 card, jumpers and connections.  It's been flawless since.
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Art Nadelman

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2018, 02:28:44 pm »

The only system I ever had to reboot was an X32.  I was an early adopter of the DL251 connected to the X32 and it would occasionally lose contact with the DL251.  (Supposedly) Behringer has now fixed the issue.  I wouldn't know.  The last time it happened to me was the last time that I owned it.  I sold it and purchased an Allen & Heath GLD112 which never had any problems like that.
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Jonathan Goodall

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2018, 02:52:19 am »

Had a Soundcraft expression 1 go totally black (apart from the power button which wouldn't respond). Had to re-boot to get it going.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2018, 05:52:05 am »

I've had the yamaha 01v and for 13/14 years an 01v96. They both are still working fine. Not even a battery change.  No problems at all ever. Did replace a few faders on the 01v96. These have seen every kind of show and AC power and not a hiccup. Have a M32R now, so far so good. I find I have to turn on stage boxes first to get 0 connect problems. The board boots and will see them on and connect. If I boot the board first it is about a 80 percent chance for a good connection. When you think about how long analog boards have been out Digital is still for the most part "new" in relation to analog. So many features at a price point that when I started out 30+ years ago would have seemed impossible.  I'm sure and hoping with time digital will only get better. The down side of course is in the race to the bottom for the lowest cost, yet most features available, some end users will end up paying a price. Analog and Digital both have their good and bad points.

Douglas R. Allen
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William Schnake

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2018, 08:46:19 am »

Just last fall, second week of October, I was doing a show mixing the opener for April Wine and  B.O.C.  We were using the house system at the venue with the exception of the mixers.  We had a M7CL on monitors and a Avid SC48 on house.  We got to the end of our set, next to last song, the biggest song for this particular band and half way through the first verse, the SC48 turns off and has to be re-booted.  All we had for the second half of the verse and the first chorus was monitors.  The board finally came back up and we finished out our part of the show.  Pissed doesn't even come close.  Anyway, during the April Wine set, the board took a dump again.  You can imagine how happy they were about it.  At least it gave us something to talk about after the show.

Bill
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Erik Jerde

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 10:41:30 am »

I've been regularly using DiGiCo SD series (8,9,10,11) for the better part of a decade now.  Haven't once had to reboot during a show.  I did have the left tile of a SD8 take a splash of water during a show.  I was able to move all channels off of the tile, remove it from the console, clean, dry, and reinstall all during the show without turning off the console.  Upon re-connecting it I just had to do a surface reset and it was back ready to go.  That was super impressive to me.
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John L Nobile

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 10:41:51 am »

I've had SC48's on rental a dozen times and have had them lock up on me twice. Fortunately, it was during soundcheck both times. Not sure if it was the same board but it was from the same rental company.

I have 2 - X32's in house and have had 2 lockups in 3 years.

I retired my O1V 3 years ago and have had it since it came out. Not one problem with that or the ProMix I had before it.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 10:58:17 am »

Just last fall, second week of October, I was doing a show mixing the opener for April Wine and  B.O.C.  We were using the house system at the venue with the exception of the mixers.  We had a M7CL on monitors and a Avid SC48 on house.  We got to the end of our set, next to last song, the biggest song for this particular band and half way through the first verse, the SC48 turns off and has to be re-booted.  All we had for the second half of the verse and the first chorus was monitors.  The board finally came back up and we finished out our part of the show.  Pissed doesn't even come close.  Anyway, during the April Wine set, the board took a dump again.  You can imagine how happy they were about it.  At least it gave us something to talk about after the show.

Bill

And how did Avid take care of supporting your SC48?  The issue we had with the TDM jumper between mix engine cards was pretty much identified down to the component and Avid emailed me detailed instructions on disassembly and reassembly of the console.

We also had a hard drive fail and a stick of RAM fail, but I consider those to be consumable items in computers that are 5 years or more old.   The hard drive failed during sound check (got an error saying the user partition was corrupt and that the Venue software would use the system partition but that response would be slowed).  I called Avid, they diagnosed the HD problem and I went to the closest place to buy a hard drive (Best Buy).  The BE saved his show to USB stick, I replaced the hard drive, reloaded the Venue software and plug ins and restored the BE's show file.  Took about 30 minutes from first screw removal to restored console.

I will probably jinx myself but the only console brand I've not had a digital mixer glitch of some kind has been Yamaha.

Eric J's experience with DigiCo is not mine.  I've seen enough DigiCo failures in show that I wouldn't be likely to specify or approve the purchase of a DigiCo.  Any brand or model where I see a HOT SPARE in the vom nearest stage left... tells me there is a history of problems.  I don't care how good something is supposed to be if I must have a hot redundant spare awaiting a primary console failure.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 11:04:39 am by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Steve Ferreira

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 01:09:16 pm »

I have been lucky and never lost signal to a console.....(know on wood). I did have the left bank on a DiGico D1 lock up on me once, lost the touch screen and controls. Luckily it was during sound check. Rebooted the console and the problem was still there, moved everything from the left section onto the centre section. Sucked with all the layer jumping but the event happened without a hitch. Turns out a jumper cable came loose in the console.
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Stephen Kirby

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 01:59:38 pm »

Have had my Soundcraft Expression lock up on me at home testing when I first got it.  Passed audio but didn't respond to any controls.  Since putting a CyberPower UPS on it, zero problems.
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William Schnake

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 02:00:56 pm »

And how did Avid take care of supporting your SC48?  The issue we had with the TDM jumper between mix engine cards was pretty much identified down to the component and Avid emailed me detailed instructions on disassembly and reassembly of the console.
Hi Tim, it wasn't our board.  I was mixing the opener for the show as their FoH A1.

Bill
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 03:08:14 pm »

Hi Tim, it wasn't our board.  I was mixing the opener for the show as their FoH A1.

Bill

Saw the Avid in your sig line, presumed it was your desk.  Oops.

We've been pleased with Avid support and almost all of it has been for "computers".  Only 1 i/o related hardware problem (under warranty), a couple of faders.  The support techs are top notch, IMHO, and Avid follows up on every ticket.  That kind of support is expensive (24/7/365) but is part of what separates professional gear in commercial use from the MI and pro-sumer stuff.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Weogo Reed

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Re: digital mixer re-boots?
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 03:31:02 pm »

Hi Folks,

Thanks for all the informative replies.
I was hoping to see zero issues with the more expensive mixers,
but in reality they are probably just much less common.

EARLY ADOPTERS:
Time and again, early adopters reap the joys of new tools, and
the all too common hardware and software bugs that can accompany them.
From what I've seen, reputable manufacturers do fix
pretty much every problem they reasonably can.

LEMONS:
Even the most consistent, precise and reliable robot soldering, assembly, etc.
machine needs human cleaning and maintenance at some point.
I wonder how many of the issues we see are because of humans
not doing what needs to be done on schedule?

FOR PERSPECTIVE:
An uncle worked his whole career for a supplier of electronics materials for military use.
He told me they charged astronomical prices for transistors and everything else, because
they had thoroughly tested each and every piece that went out the door; they
did not want a fighter jet falling out of the sky because THEIR component failed.
How much are we willing to pay for how much testing?

My SurgeX unit goes out for gigs with questionable power, but
mostly I just use a good, basic UPS.
How many of you are always using SurgeX level surge protection?

Would it be possible for a USB(or other digitally connected) device to cause a mixer re-boot?

These are live shows.  Stuff happens.
My opinion  ~  digital mixer re-boots are a first-world problem.

Thanks and good health,  Weogo
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