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Author Topic: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts  (Read 26579 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2018, 11:35:09 PM »

Maybe I am missing something but why would it not work like this.

Each stage has it's own mixer and Rios as necessary.
Each stage mixers sends a stereo mix out on two Dante channels.
The main mixer takes the two Dante feeds from each stage which is patched into the board with Dante controller.

What am I missing?

The desire for the ability to get sectional stem mixes from each band for the finale, and potentially some spot micing when each band "solos" in addition to the stems.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2018, 11:38:23 PM »

Maybe I am missing something but why would it not work like this.

Each stage has it's own mixer and Rios as necessary.
Each stage mixers sends a stereo mix out on two Dante channels.
The main mixer takes the two Dante feeds from each stage which is patched into the board with Dante controller.

What am I missing?

The Dante routing aspect of this will work, I don't think anyone is taking issue with that.  The part that I am getting hung up on is the headamp control working with this many desks.  On a typical QL/CL network with Rios, they allow four 4 consoles to get discrete "gain compensated" feeds from each channel.  Each desk is identified by a console ID of 1-4.   ID 1, has some special properties as its bit depth/latency/word clock parameters are synced to all Rios.   The ambiguity (for me) lies in if you can double up on the other console ID's or if that will really confuse communication between the other consoles and rios.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 07:07:58 AM by David Sturzenbecher »
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2018, 01:21:31 AM »

I couldn't imagine running a show like this with such headamp limitations though.
What on earth are you talking about? You want more than 4 consoles controlling the same headamps? I only ever want one. I'm not sure what kind of hell multiple consoles controlling headamps would be, but No Thanks!
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2018, 01:44:47 AM »

What on earth are you talking about? You want more than 4 consoles controlling the same headamps? I only ever want one. I'm not sure what kind of hell multiple consoles controlling headamps would be, but No Thanks!

No kidding, right?

I'd be happy with just a mono mains+sub feed on two channels just to balance out the mains and subs on the bigger system for the main stands.

Hopefully the main mixing for each of the small stages is being done reasonably well on the small stage consoles and you just have to balance them all together for the main system.

Having each small stage route to each other isn't impossible, just time consuming and tedious to get them all set up properly on the network.

Hopefully there's a plan to time align all the stages to each other and then the main system? That's the part that would cause more headaches than anything else I think.
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ThomasA(lbenberger)

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2018, 04:56:20 AM »

Hello!

Interesting topic...

Aside from the headamp discussion, one consideration with only one Dante network is, that if every tech could patch the whole system from anywhere using Dante Controller, how would you prevent everybody from accidentially patching things they are not supposed to? Say, accidentally patching inputs at another of the stages, or even outputs across the whole system. What is your plan for making this impossible?

Domain Manager should allow this, but afaik, its not out yet. You might want to check with Audinate directly. A more conservative approach would of course be, to separate the cross-stage network from the single-stages, as was mentioned before. Personally, I would do just that.

Your approach that (stadium) FOH should also do the mix for the single stages in times when only one of them is active, is - in my opinion - hopefully not necessary and just over-complicates things. Let the techs from the single stages handle their own mixes and the (stadium) FOH tech can enjoy a moment of rest, if there really is just one single stage active. Most likely, the (stadium) FOH tech will also be responsible for moderation inputs, 2trk inputs, maybe a recording feed or two including ambience mics and maybe other duties - so it sounds to me, that a few minutes in between to pay attention to these other things would benefit the whole show as well.

Just my thoughts.

I am very interested in how you end up doing this thing - especially the user access management for patching across the network. Please keep us updated!

Cheers, Thomas
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David Sturzenbecher

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Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2018, 06:44:43 AM »

What on earth are you talking about? You want more than 4 consoles controlling the same headamps? I only ever want one. I'm not sure what kind of hell multiple consoles controlling headamps would be, but No Thanks!
Did you not read the post directly above yours? It's not about more then 4 consoles controlling the same preamps, its about more then 4 consoles on the same network having preamp control period.

Again, if you can have multiple identical console IDs on the same network, and preamp control is not affected... cool. Discussion over.


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« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 06:48:49 AM by David Sturzenbecher »
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Steve Alves

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2018, 04:02:00 PM »

Did you not read the post directly above yours? It's not about more then 4 consoles controlling the same preamps, its about more then 4 consoles on the same network having preamp control period.

Again, if you can have multiple identical console IDs on the same network, and preamp control is not affected... cool. Discussion over.
Turn console id off and use R-Remote for headamp control for mixer 5 on?
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2018, 04:17:28 PM »

Turn console id off and use R-Remote for headamp control for mixer 5 on?

In a festival situation?  No thanks.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2018, 05:00:25 PM »

In a festival situation?  No thanks.

This appears to be a kind of sports event half-time show with multiple samba-ish bands performing individually and then combining for a big finale number - if I'm understanding Diogo's intent.

The issue of timing between bands was mentioned.  I suggest low power FM transmission of click track to each band's conductor/leader, along with cuing and stage manager. 
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Diogo Nunes Pereira

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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2018, 05:10:44 PM »

In a festival situation?  No thanks.

Not a festival... just one big band (6500 kids) playing together. It's like graduation concert for a whole bunch of music schools statewide. 7 teaching disciplines represented as 7 sections (choir, strings, bass/guitar, percussion, traditional instruments, philarmonic, jazz combo).

Each section plays one song alone. Grand finale has all sections playing ensemble (hopefully).

In the center of the field one stage (about 15 meter diameter) will have the band leaders (teachers) for each students section... the 7 diferent sections like flower-petals in front of their leaders portion of the stage playing in the field-grass.

FOH console mixes:

1) all channels on stage - band-leaders for every section - for the grandstand PA.
2) submixes (stems) from students mics on the grass - fed from STAGE console busses.
3) presenters, 2-tracks, etc...

Each STAGE consoles mixes:

1) stage-monitors for band leaders on stage
2) monitors for it's sections kids on the grass (yesterday I refered to this as small-PA's... more like speakers on poles)
3) stems from students mics to feed FOH
4) stems from leaders mics to feed other STAGE consoles (to keep tempo when playing ensemble)

Tempo issues will be the bigger deal in this gig. Whoever tought about this might not have clear in it's head the time it takes for sound to travel from one side of the field to the other. Our goal is to have plenty of monitor poles surrounding each section, mixing section leaders to keep students on-time. IEMs are being discussed (broadcast FM-radio transmitter style stuff) but no decision made yet.

Seems like we might reduce STAGE consoles to four, one per corner of the stage, each mixing one or two sections depending on the complexity of the mix and phisical location of the petals (example: choir is simple, located close to string - might end up in the same desk)

Maybe will end up having 2 consoles (or a PM7) @FOH (one mixing leaders, other mixing stems from the students mics). Still, Master-FOH console needs to have access to all RIOs surrounding the stage. Slave-FOH console would receive all the stems busses from the sections consoles... it's important for parents to ear their kids ;)

Hope this sheds a brighter light on what's the goal here...

This has been a pretty cool discussion so far... keep it coming.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 06:01:14 PM by Diogo Nunes Pereira »
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Diogo Nunes Pereira
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Re: Many Yamaha consoles: Dante doubts
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2018, 05:10:44 PM »


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