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Very true subs do take the edge off the mid-high range... what would be the most scalable for a hypothetical audiophile type setup for 300-1000 person gigs...

subs with 8" tops to save money
- 0 (0%)
subs with 10" tops to save money
- 2 (13.3%)
subs with 12" tops
- 13 (86.7%)
subs with 15" tops
- 0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 15


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Author Topic: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12  (Read 32256 times)

David Winners

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2018, 09:54:33 AM »

What rigs have you been around that do sound good to you? That may be a good place to start.
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Don T. Williams

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2018, 11:53:25 AM »


also... REALLY!?!? dj's will play tops full range even when they have subs... LOL... this was a big company in this area... they send guys out to pretty much any party you can imagine... /quote]

Joseph, you are assuming that the DJ's really care if they getting the "best possible sound quality".  Time and time again, I find that the goal of the DJ is "loudest and bassiest".  Many seem oblivious to distortion, and much of the music is distorted to start with.  The DJ has attended a recent EDM event and attempts to reproduce that experience with a pair of 15" 2-way's for 200 people at a wedding.  The closest they can come is to just crank the bass until it can't crank any more. 

I'm not trying to disparage DJ's. Their job is get people dancing and make the party exciting!  Low distortion sound is way, way, way down the list of priorities for many (and maybe most) DJs.  There are exceptions, and I know some forum members and local DJ's here really care and "get it".  They have quality equipment and use it correctly . . . but not most.
 
So, yes DJs do run the speakers full range even with subs.  My rental returns tell me that no matter how much you explain how much better the system sounds properly crossed-over, they don't get it or don't care.  They "mess" with the controls until it sounds the loudest, quality and distortion be damned!  Some DJ's have never actually heard undistorted high quality bass.  Their reference point is a boom box, car stereo, and really bad club systems.  If they have heard an ultra expensive club system (none around here), they don't realize the pair of 15" 2-ways they throw in the back seat of the car can just never emulate that sound!  This forum is trying hard to change that and enlighten the masses.
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Joseph Amodeo

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2018, 02:17:34 PM »


also... REALLY!?!? dj's will play tops full range even when they have subs... LOL... this was a big company in this area... they send guys out to pretty much any party you can imagine... /quote]

Joseph, you are assuming that the DJ's really care if they getting the "best possible sound quality".  Time and time again, I find that the goal of the DJ is "loudest and bassiest".  Many seem oblivious to distortion, and much of the music is distorted to start with.  The DJ has attended a recent EDM event and attempts to reproduce that experience with a pair of 15" 2-way's for 200 people at a wedding.  The closest they can come is to just crank the bass until it can't crank any more. 

I'm not trying to disparage DJ's. Their job is get people dancing and make the party exciting!  Low distortion sound is way, way, way down the list of priorities for many (and maybe most) DJs.  There are exceptions, and I know some forum members and local DJ's here really care and "get it".  They have quality equipment and use it correctly . . . but not most.
 
So, yes DJs do run the speakers full range even with subs.  My rental returns tell me that no matter how much you explain how much better the system sounds properly crossed-over, they don't get it or don't care.  They "mess" with the controls until it sounds the loudest, quality and distortion be damned!  Some DJ's have never actually heard undistorted high quality bass.  Their reference point is a boom box, car stereo, and really bad club systems.  If they have heard an ultra expensive club system (none around here), they don't realize the pair of 15" 2-ways they throw in the back seat of the car can just never emulate that sound!  This forum is trying hard to change that and enlighten the masses.



Im still curious if two RCF 310 with a sub or two will be loud enough for 100-250 people venues... or weddings? small barbecues? auditoriums? (all of which representing different loudness needs)

im positive the RCF will be "clear" enough in the highs and mids based on reputation and reading about their construction as opposed to something such as QSC K... and the few demo's i have heard... the tradeoff is they arent necessarily as punchy as the QSC... in my opinion... but this tradeoff means they have that smooth treble at high volumes... (right or wrong?)... and i know many have pointed out that clarity and smoothness means the speakers sound louder and can be heard farther... as opposed to technically mathematically spec-ed out louder speakers that are less smooth... or cant hold up clarity at these levels... which is literally what ive heard about RCF vs QSC... that QSC just sounds harsh at high volumes and RCF gets better and better...




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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2018, 07:28:49 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Amodeo
Im still curious if two RCF 310 with a sub or two will be loud enough for 100-250 people venues...

Don't get lost in brand generalizations, every manufacturer builds a range of products from low cost entry level to touring grade and you do get more speaker for every step up the ladder. The RCF speakers you seem to be a little obsessed about here are entry level and in my personal opinion will leave you wanting at those larger events.
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Joseph Amodeo

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2018, 10:56:34 AM »

Don't get lost in brand generalizations, every manufacturer builds a range of products from low cost entry level to touring grade and you do get more speaker for every step up the ladder. The RCF speakers you seem to be a little obsessed about here are entry level and in my personal opinion will leave you wanting at those larger events.


yeah thats what i was asking... the 3 series are pretty much known for good highs and mids when loud... but im sure they have better stuff... i do realize that good brands do have their entry level stuff (eons)

does anybody have any experience with the HD series?  will these or 10" RCF 7 series with a sub do alright for larger events like weddings, medium sized bars etc...

to be honest ive never actually counted how many people there are in a medium sized one room bar and always assumed that was along the lines of 100 person... 250 would be maybe an auditorium?? and 300+ a club?
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2018, 11:51:53 AM »

I own a few sets of RCF 8004as with HD32mk4, and i would do 250 cap rooms with 2 8004's and 1 HD32 per side, just to be on the safe side with lows. That's 2x18" and 12"/3" per side. Usually i can get by with 1 8004 per side. Depends on the type of music, and level required. There's an unwritten rule that your max sub output should be at least 6dB, but pref. 10dB more than the top(s). I wouldn't think about using only tops for 250 people, not even 100. 50? maybe.

It's better to turn things down than to turn it up to 11.

So my advice: Buy the best sounding 12" tops, with the biggest baddest high driver you can afford, and save up (fast) for the matching 18" subs. it's the only way to ever accomplish what you want, imho.

 :o  ??? Have you read that post already?

Almost all 10" tops (except the really expensive ones) lack a bit of low mids, making them sound 'nasal' compared to 12" when driven hard. I sure wouldn't use them stand alone, except at very low levels or speech. 12" is the sweet spot for clarity and still some low/low-mid.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2018, 01:19:23 AM »

:o  ??? Have you read that post already?

Almost all 10" tops (except the really expensive ones) lack a bit of low mids, making them sound 'nasal' compared to 12" when driven hard. I sure wouldn't use them stand alone, except at very low levels or speech. 12" is the sweet spot for clarity and still some low/low-mid.

Then there is the question - why drive a system to the bloody edge?  That might be one reason it sounds bad... just sayin'.
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Joseph Amodeo

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2018, 10:08:58 PM »

:o  ??? Have you read that post already?

Almost all 10" tops (except the really expensive ones) lack a bit of low mids, making them sound 'nasal' compared to 12" when driven hard. I sure wouldn't use them stand alone, except at very low levels or speech. 12" is the sweet spot for clarity and still some low/low-mid.

this is news to me...

im pretty sure i dont really need ANY lows on my tops... so a sweet spot between still having lows and upper clarity isnt necessary... i just need upper clarity... no lows...

but lacking low-mids... that could pose a real problem for gigs...

wouldnt a good sub take care of low mids... or is a sub doesnt cover that frequency range...

what frequency range do you mean by low mids... below 50hz isnt common in ANY full range speakers...  and pretty much all DO cover in the 50s... 

not sure if subs ever get above the 50hz mark... which would be redundant but could also compensate if the tops are weak in that area (aka the specs are lieing when it says tops can handle 50-60Hz without indicating that they actually can but not as great as the upper ranges... specs usually just say "frequency responce: 50Hz - whatever the top number is Hz")


once again though.. main issue is loudness... of pair of RCF 310 WITH a sub...

rcf 310" are unusually small compared to other 10" speakers... so this also begs the question

how would two DXR10 with a sub compare (in terms of loudness)

one might work while the other might not necessarily...
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2018, 01:23:56 AM »

once again though.. main issue is loudness... of pair of RCF 310 WITH a sub...

rcf 310" are unusually small compared to other 10" speakers... so this also begs the question

how would two DXR10 with a sub compare (in terms of loudness)

I think the DXRs would offer more output and sound better, but I have to admit to not having any direct experience with the RCF310 so this is more of an educated guess.

If you are looking for the most compact system you can assemble then 10" boxes with perhaps a 15" sub would be great, but if you want the ability to do some small events without a sub then a 12" box is a better choice for the added low frequency output when not crossover over above a sub. Typical pro audio sub crossover frequencies are 80-100hz, you generally don't drive the main speakers as low as they can go as this will compromise mid clarity.
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2018, 06:08:32 AM »

Sub-bass 20 to 60 Hz
Bass 60 to 250 Hz
Low mid 250 to 500 Hz
Mid 500 Hz to 2 kHz
Upper mid 2 to 4 kHz
Presence 4 to 6 kHz
Brilliance    6 to 20 kHz
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: RCF 312a VS. Yamaha DXR 12
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2018, 06:08:32 AM »


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