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[Joe Breher]

I perform in a variety cover trio. I'd like to add some lights to our setup, but am confused as to what we really need.

Currently, one of the other guys in the band has a small light setup, which he sometimes brings and sometimes does not. To my mind, it is 'slanted' toward effect lighting, rather than a wash that would help the punters see the band. As far as wash, I think he has 6 conventional PAR 36 with an assortment of gels. Pretty dim. I'd like to augment (or replace) this wash capability.

Typical rooms for us are in the 2500-5000 sq ft range. Typical crowds would be 100-200 peeps. When we get a 16'x12' stage we feel as if we have luxurious elbow room. Stacks usually right at the corners of the stage. Maybe a 10' ceiling typical. Light trees would need to be very close to the stage.

As the main PA guy, I don't want to add much time to setup. I figure two trees - one each at each front corner of the stage, with prewired bars (just 1 DMX and 1 AC cable to each) is about all the time budget will allow.

I've been eyeing colormixing LED flat par fixtures for this purpose. Something such as the Blizzard Puck3 or the ADJ FlatPAR Tri7. Between the small, flat form factor, and the tricolor LEDs, these seem like a good solution. Other suggestions are welcome.

The next question to sort out is how many fixtures would be required to cover the stage. The aforementioned fixtures are purported to be fairly bright, but I imagine coverage angle will be important as well, seeing as they'll be very close to the stage. Blizzard specs Beam Angle and Field Angle - how do these differ, and can I use these figures in the same manner as I use coverage angle in speccing a sound system?

Next issue is control. Currently, we run everything from stage. I run sound, while the aforementioned band mate runs lights - he has two purpose-built foot controllers and several switches at his feet. One option would be to interface with his controllers, but I don't know how to determine if this is feasible. Another option - my son comes to most gigs, and assists with PA setup. I could get a small controller to give him something to do between setup and teardown. Personally, I don't think I have the mental bandwidth for another task during the gig, so I won't be doing it myself.

I also operate a small sound co, doing gigs most often larger than that described above. As such, I'd like whatever I settle on to not fall apart with typical handling, and to also be something I could build upon to grow into a larger system.

I *could* spend perhaps $2000.00 to fill this wash need. I'd rather spend less.

Bear in mind that, while being fairly well versed in sound, I know little to nothing about lighting. Are there standards for 'how much light' is typical for a rock show, in the same manner of expecting X dB at a certain type of musical event? How does one convert this requirement for 'amount of light' to the various fixtures required to meet that requirement?

- What fixtures might be recommended similar to those outlined above?
- For that matter, should I be considering another type of fixture altogether?
- How many of these fixtures do I need to start? Would 2/side be enough? Need more than 4/side?

[duane massey]

ADJ Mega Tri Bar

http://www.venuesupply.com/detail/mega-tri-bar-led-with-18-x-3w-tri-color-leds-flicker-free-for-tv-video-4362.cfm

a pair of these and a simple comtroller will give you a great wash with little set-up time or power concerns. These suckers are bright and will do some cool built-in programs as well.

[Matt Melberg]

For band lighting, I am not a huge fan of the strip fixtures and prefer the par can look.  There are some newer tri led products out from Blizzard / Chauvet / ADJ that are fairly affordable.  You can load up some t bars with 2-4 of those per side and have a pretty rockin' show.  And with separate lights you have the option of pointing the lights in multiple directions to highlight performers etc. 
My .02 anyway...
As far as Beam angle Vs Field angle, the easiest analogy is to think of a flashlight.  You have a brighter spot in the middle, that would be your beam angle, then the spill on the outside of that would be your field angle.  Think the Puck 3s are around 25 degrees which is good for a wash.  If you had 4-8 of those you would have plenty of brightness for a typical 12x16 or so club stage.

[Matt Dittman]

I am using the Blizzard Puck RGBA, the amber LEDs allow you to get a more natural looking light for frontlighting performers.

I go by the advice to color the stage, light the performers. The only time the Pucks aren't white/amber is when they are strobing colors with all the other lights.

ETA: Sorry, gotta figure out the "Real Name" thing on this board.

-Matt Dittman

[John Livings]

ADJ Mega Tri Bar

http://www.venuesupply.com/detail/mega-tri-bar-led-with-18-x-3w-tri-color-leds-flicker-free-for-tv-video-4362.cfm

a pair of these and a simple comtroller will give you a great wash with little set-up time or power concerns. These suckers are bright and will do some cool built-in programs as well.

Have you had any experience  with the ADJ Vizi Wash LED 108?

Regards,  John

[Joe Breher]

Any particular reason to avoid the Chauvet 4BarTri ? It seems as if two of these wold be a good starting point:

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/4-bar-tri.html

Each unit has
- (4) fixtures, each with (7) tricolor 3W LEDs
- crossbar with power and DMX distribution
- stand (rather short, though)
- limited function foot controller controller
- nifty carrying bag

I like the complete nature of the kit, and the fact that it uses 3W colormixing LEDs.

It seems the biggest downside is that all the electronics are apparently in the crossbar. This precludes using each fixture individually. but I can live with that in my application.

Any opinions on this? Or Chauvet in general?

[Steve Hurt]

Any particular reason to avoid the Chauvet 4BarTri ? It seems as if two of these wold be a good starting point:

http://www.chauvetlighting.com/4-bar-tri.html

Each unit has
- (4) fixtures, each with (7) tricolor 3W LEDs
- crossbar with power and DMX distribution
- stand (rather short, though)
- limited function foot controller controller
- nifty carrying bag

I like the complete nature of the kit, and the fact that it uses 3W colormixing LEDs.

It seems the biggest downside is that all the electronics are apparently in the crossbar. This precludes using each fixture individually. but I can live with that in my application.

Any opinions on this? Or Chauvet in general?

I've got 2 of the original 4 Bar lights and they've been good to me.

I had a failure after having them for about a year and a half.  Chauvet's LED warranty is 2 years.   I called Chauvet, they issued a RMA right away.  Sent it in and 10 days later it was back, good as new.  Not all companies are as easy to work with on returns.  The mother board in the light had failed and they replaced it.

The 4Bar foot controller is limited, but it's a lot better than nothing.  Our singer can run them and make it interesting (even when he's drunk - Wish I could trust him to take them down and not mess up the zipper on the case!)

The 4 Bar Tri is going to be brighter, and Tri lights are great.  Love that when you look right at them, you see the color and not just a mess of R's, B's, & G's. 

If the stands are the same size as the standard 4Bar, you probably will want to get taller stands.  Check the diameter of the light before buying stands.  My 4Bar's fit on a 1-3/8" (speaker stand size) pole, not a 1-1/2 (lighting stand sized) pole.  Not sure what the 4Bar Tri uses.

[Donnie Evans]

If you're looking at stepping up to larger stages and using these for other places... I'd definitely look into getting more than you mentioned.  And dont be afraid of used if you can find decent fixtures and can properly store and handle them.  I got a package of 15 used wiedmarak par64 10mm LED cans for less than $100 each and couldn't be happier.  Got a decent controller for around $100 also.  They are plenty for my needs and are as bright as the Par 56 with 300w bulbs that i was using.  These are crappy cell phone pics but that's 12 on the truss and 3 on the ground pointed towards the drums just for effect.







EDIT:  I forgot to mention that i have my bars prewired also with trigger clamps so they can either just be stuck on a tripod or hang from the truss... 1 dmx and 1 AC to each bar.

[Joe Breher]

If you're looking at stepping up to larger stages and using these for other places... I'd definitely look into getting more than you mentioned.  I got a package of 15 used wiedmarak par64 10mm LED cans for less than $100 each and couldn't be happier.

OK, this must be a teachable moment for me. I really don't understand how this is "more than (I) mentioned". In my sound-guy ignorance, I equate lux with 'amount of light' (both Weidamark and Chauvet spec lux). From the manufacturer's websites:

Weidamark LED 64 Black (these have 10mm LEDs - I assume they're your fixtures)
# LED's    183 Ultra Bright 10mm (60 Red, 60 Green, 63 Blue)
Lux Footcandles    199 lux / 18.5 fc.

Chauvet 4BAR™ Tri
Light source: 28 3W (350mA x3) tri-color LEDs (7 per light)
Lux: 3,250 @ 1m (per light)

From my viewpoint, 8 fixtures @ 3250 lux ea. >> 15 fixtures @ 199 lux ea. Plus, less fixtures = quicker setup / teardown.

What am I missing?

(edit: spelling)

[Donnie Evans]

OK, this must be a teachable moment for me. I really don't understand how this is "more than (I) mentioned". In my sound-guy ignorance, I equate lux with 'amount of light' (both Weidamark and Chauvet spec lux). From the manufacturer's websites:

Weidamark LED 64 Black (these have 10mm LEDs - I assume they're your fixtures)
# LED's    183 Ultra Bright 10mm (60 Red, 60 Green, 63 Blue)
Lux Footcandles    199 lux / 18.5 fc.

Chauvet 4BAR™ Tri
Light source: 28 3W (350mA x3) tri-color LEDs (7 per light)
Lux: 3,250 @ 1m (per light)

From my viewpoint, 8 fixtures @ 3250 lux ea. >> 15 fixtures @ 199 lux ea. Plus, less fixtures = quicker setup / teardown.

What am I missing?

(edit: spelling)

I didn't necessarily mean it as more "output."  I was more referring to number of fixtures for flexibility.  Sure, i would like to have higher output fixtures but mine work fine for what I do, and even with higher output, it would be hard to throw at least "some" light on every piece of a large stage woth only 8 sources. 

PS. even with the 10mm leds i was surprised at the output.  In tight bar setups i can easily get by with 8 lights and sometimes only use 4.

EDIT:  I'm also not sure about that 199 lux number either?  I have the polished cans and in the manual it has a distance/lux chart and full on is 1026 lux at 1m.  Still not nearly as bright as the 3W led's... but alot closer than that number makes it seem.

[ProSoundWeb Community]