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[Bob Leonard]

Too many ducks in this line. Your goal will be to reduce the devices from the piano to the board input. If I understand correctly you're controlling the piano tones using the Mac via the MIDI interface and the output from the keyboard, then to the Scarlett, then to the Rolls, then to the DI, then to the board.

Start by dumping the Rolls. Also, you may be able to set the output of the Scarlett. If you can then set the channel gain on the board to zero (no input) and the faders to 0db. Playing your loudest note bring the channel gain up to a usable input level. Leave the gain alone, raise and lower the keyboard levels for the mix using the faders on the main board, raise or lower the piano levels using the keyboard level control or level foot pedal. No foot pedal? Buy one. Try this with and without the DI, and once again, lose the Rolls mixer.

[Mike Caldwell]

Are you using the direct audio signal from your piano combined with the processed audio from gour macbook ? Then you will have different latency on these streams. And that will resultnin phase issues wich can distroy your sounds.

With my trouble shooting ideas/steps I was kind of thinking polarity or phase issues and curious to see what he came up with.

[Isaac South]

Try plugging your headphones into the Rolls mixer and see what that sounds like.

It could be that the keyboard channels on the QU 32 are just not set up correctly.
Try this, pan both of the mixers keyboad channels back to the center and see what that sounds like, then with both channels still panned to the center mute one of the channels and see what that sounds like. With headphones plugged into mixer what does it sound like in the headphones compaired to the speakers with the channels panned to the center and to the left right.
In the mixers channel routing setup page check and make sure the keyboard channels are not assigned to sub group and to the left right mains at the same time, for that matter no channel should be assigned to the left right mains and a subgroup at the same time if that sub group is assigned to the left right main mix.

Let us know what you find.
If possible post a short audio clip.

Let me add...recorded audio from the board that has the bad keyboard sound.

Mike.  These are great ideas.  I will try these.  A few days ago, I tried panning my channels center, and I was getting some major phase issues.  It sounded even worse than it does now.

I hadn't thought about putting my headphones into the QU32.  I'll try that.  It's hard though, because I can't play my keyboard AND be back at the mixer at the same time.  But maybe I can get another musician to play it for me.

I'll also check to make sure my channels are not sent to the main LR and a sub group.

[Isaac South]

I'm having a problem understanding your signal routing. I'm going to say what I think you said, then I have a related question if that is the case.

You said your piano is sent to the Scarlett (assuming audio). You also said that the piano is connected via MIDI to the mac (presumably also through the Scarlett). Then the Scarlett audio output and the piano audio output are sent to your Rolls mixer. When you listen on the Scarlett, your sound is what you want. When you plug into the PA from the Rolls, your sound is compromised.

First, as Mike suggested, take a listen in the Rolls via headphones and see what you hear there. If it sounds good there, skip to the bottom to see a couple of questions about the DI and board setup (again, in addition to the good steps Mike provided).

Now, to the question in my mind: How are you sending audio to both the Scarlett and the Rolls from the keyboard? The 300gx only has a single stereo output. Are you using a splitter or some other device? Signal routing might be causing some issues.

And a follow-on question: Do you notice any appreciable change in quality if you have just the keyboard turned up on the mixer, with the Scarlett turned down? How about with just the Scarlett and none if the keyboard (this might be what you're doing anyway)? If you hear bad audio on headphones connected to the Rolls, this would be my next step to see if I can isolate the source.

Next, are all of the 1/4" cables you are using balanced? This is probably not the problem, but you could be getting some signal interference on unbalanced lines.

Last questions are more specifically about the house PA. Have you verified that the pad is disabled/off on the DI? If the pad is enabled, the preamp gain might be cranked up on the qu.

Jonathan.  You are correct.  I made a mistake when explaining my signal path.  My Roland is connected to my MacBook via midi cables and to my Rolls via two 1/4 cables.  My Roland is NOT connected to my scarlett.  Sorry about that.

The Scarlett and the Roland are going to the Rolls. And then I go to the DI from the Rolls (stereo).

I haven't really tried playing with the volumes of the Scarlett and the Rolls separately.  Honestly, I don't think I've ever messed with any of the knobs on the Scarlett.  I'll try that.

I'm 99% sure all of my cables are TRS.  I purchased several new TRS cables for this purpose.  But I'll double check tonight that I am using all the correct cables.

I am not sure about the pad on the ProD2.  I'll check that tonight as well.

Thank you for all of your help.  Much appreciated.  I'll let you know my findings.

[Isaac South]

Are you in Niceville? I literally just installed an identical system at a church here.

Sig says Kentucky, but would be a huge coincidence! It might be a long shot as I never saw anyone with a mackbook/interface/roland piano setup during the install.

Do you have headphones to check while at home?
Do you have reference monitors?
What speakers are you using to listen on?

Seems like maybe a polarity reversal?

Nathan - I am in Columbia.  I'm not sure where Niceville is.  Are you located close to me?

At home, I'm using headphones.  They are plugged into my Scarlett.  Originally, at church, my channels were panned center, and it sounded terrible.  Turns out I was getting some phase issues.

[Isaac South]

Are you using the direct audio signal from your piano combined with the processed audio from gour macbook ? Then you will have different latency on these streams. And that will resultnin phase issues wich can distroy your sounds.

Mark - That's a really good question.  And I think my answer is yes and no. ha

I am using sounds from Mainstage (on my MacBook).  When I use these sounds, I turn the volume on my Roland all the way down.

Then, when I want to use only my Roland sound, I go to a "blank" patch on Mainstage and then I turn up the volume on my Roland.

I'm not sure if this is correct.  Now that I think about it, I'm questioning my need for the Rolls.

[Nathan Riddle]

Nathan - I am in Columbia.  I'm not sure where Niceville is.  Are you located close to me?

At home, I'm using headphones.  They are plugged into my Scarlett.  Originally, at church, my channels were panned center, and it sounded terrible.  Turns out I was getting some phase issues.

Florida, so no. Just ironic I finished the exact install you described here. Martin CDD, QU32, etc
I did go to college with a guy from Columbia, we became good friends during the time.

I would try as Bob suggests, KISS (keep it simple saint) eliminate everything you can that complicates things, run it in mono with only Left or Right coming out, etc. Simplify as much as possible and test, then add complexity.

[Isaac South]

Too many ducks in this line. Your goal will be to reduce the devices from the piano to the board input. If I understand correctly you're controlling the piano tones using the Mac via the MIDI interface and the output from the keyboard, then to the Scarlett, then to the Rolls, then to the DI, then to the board.

Start by dumping the Rolls. Also, you may be able to set the output of the Scarlett. If you can then set the channel gain on the board to zero (no input) and the faders to 0db. Playing your loudest note bring the channel gain up to a usable input level. Leave the gain alone, raise and lower the keyboard levels for the mix using the faders on the main board, raise or lower the piano levels using the keyboard level control or level foot pedal. No foot pedal? Buy one. Try this with and without the DI, and once again, lose the Rolls mixer.

Bob - I am going to try eliminating the Rolls tonight.  As I was typing another reply a few seconds ago, I began to even wonder why I have the Rolls in the first place.  I think I was using it to control my output volume of my Mainstage sounds.  For example, when the Pastor comes to the pulpit to speak and I am still playing in the background, I want the ability to control my own volume so that I don't drown him out.  Note:  we don't have enough experience at FOH to control this for me.  I wouldn't trust them to play close enough attention.  I am trying to train, but it's going to be a long process.

To your point, if I eliminated the Rolls, how would I control the sounds of my mainstage sounds?

[Andrien (No Last Name)]

Bob - I am going to try eliminating the Rolls tonight.  As I was typing another reply a few seconds ago, I began to even wonder why I have the Rolls in the first place.  I think I was using it to control my output volume of my Mainstage sounds.  For example, when the Pastor comes to the pulpit to speak and I am still playing in the background, I want the ability to control my own volume so that I don't drown him out.  Note:  we don't have enough experience at FOH to control this for me.  I wouldn't trust them to play close enough attention.  I am trying to train, but it's going to be a long process.

To your point, if I eliminated the Rolls, how would I control the sounds of my mainstage sounds?

I am not sure if it possible, but you could try midi control from RD300Nx? Use MIDI from RD300nx  to control master volume of Mainstage or buy a second hand Behringer BCR2000 or BCF2000 (main advantage of using Behringer or other MIDI with motorized fader is that when you change scene, the volume slider/fader will also follow the scene change). Alternatively, you can also connect an Ipad to remotely control the mixer (that's what I did on our last event).

On the notes of sound, I play keyboard on my church occasionally, and we have 2 buildings at 2 different location. What I found is that no matter what I tune in our mixer, I would never get the same sound quality compared to when I use my headphone/refference speaker, so I just tune it to approximation (one of the building actually has worse accoustic design than the others so the difference is very apparent). We also used Qu32 on one of the building and I think the mixer won't be an issue ( I do recommend put pad on the input preamp in the mixer too, as the output of the keyboard will be line level which will be quite hot on the mixer cmiiw).

Attached is the setup I did for Sunday School Christmas.

[Mike Caldwell]

Like Bob said take the Rolls out of the picture, go straight from the Scarlett to the DI box and see what happens

Actually if I was trouble shooting on site I would have done that in short order with out even thinking about it!

If you are/were taking the keyboard direct outputs into a channel on the Rolls as well as the outputs of the Scarlett into another channel on the Rolls and both channels were turned up at the same time that in it self would cause phasing issues, if there was audio present at both inputs at the same time, from your later description is sounds like that may not be the case. Try just unplugging one set of inputs at the Rolls and see what happens.

In the bigger picture of things it sounds like you need to get someone with some experience at FOH to actually "run sound".

I hope your church was not sold on the idea that a new shiny digital mixer would magically fix the mix.....some have been!

[ProSoundWeb Community]