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Author Topic: My beloved DSR112 not well  (Read 40391 times)

Dave Garoutte

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #130 on: March 02, 2018, 03:01:44 pm »

One of the attractions to the DXR & DSR in the first place is the 7-year warranty, so having to fight them to get them to honor it sucks.
Love my Yammies.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #131 on: March 02, 2018, 04:50:26 pm »


I feel your pain Debbie.

Yamaha,

Please do better.  You make a great product,  but support has been a real PITA.

Yep... too true.

I am pleased you have the conclusion you deserve  Scott... good news all round.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #132 on: March 02, 2018, 05:01:13 pm »

Food for thought, Ivan.
On the other hand, with such manufacturer-speciality drivers specific to cabinets, there is no guarantee that a driver failure in the future not would similarly turn the speaker to trash.  Arguably, drivers will be around longer than those speciality amps, though.



But at least if you have the normal basic sizes you can probably find something that is "close enough".

That being said, drivers tend to "hang around" a lot longer than special size amp modules.

At least with rack amps, they are all the same size, so you can swap them around quite a bit.  With powered speakers, you are pretty much stuck with the size hole available, unless you do some special work to the cabinet (making the hole larger-putting spacers in etc)
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Aaron Maurer

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #133 on: March 03, 2018, 08:51:49 am »

Update on my DSR112 dilemma. Service tech called last Tuesday and said Yamaha is sending a new circuit board. The seven year warranty was also a BIG selling point for me as well. I personally had no need to call Yamaha directly at this point as the service tech has been on top of this issue and very responsive. If I didnít have a backup set of speakers I might feel itís dragging out a bit long but can be patient due to my built in redundancy. Will post back once I get the box back.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #134 on: March 03, 2018, 10:34:50 am »

But at least if you have the normal basic sizes you can probably find something that is "close enough".

That being said, drivers tend to "hang around" a lot longer than special size amp modules.

At least with rack amps, they are all the same size, so you can swap them around quite a bit.  With powered speakers, you are pretty much stuck with the size hole available, unless you do some special work to the cabinet (making the hole larger-putting spacers in etc)
Interesting point.

I (like all of you) once had a full passive system.  Amp racks, cross-over, DSP, and 3-way 15" tops over subs.

In around the same 7 year time window, I had 1 tweeter go bad, and one 18" sub driver go bad.  Sure, this is just my experience with one set of passive speakers.  Others have different experiences and mine can surely not be considered statistical data by any means.

The system was much bigger, much heavier, and just as reliable as my current powered FOH has been on average.

The woofer from my Cerwin Vega folded horn was not covered under warranty.  The tweeter from Klipsch they sent a new diaphragm for free.

The DSR's have been on the market for a little over 7 years now (I was an early adopter).  This is the first problem I have had.  They sound much better than any top I have used before, and I don't have to lug around an amp rack.

Since the DSR112 is still in production, I would suspect we could get replacement parts for them easily for the next 5 years even if they stopped tomorrow.

Lets say that powered speakers are easily serviceable for 10 years through OEM parts.  Throw in another 5 years for eBay parts.  15 year service life for a box seems reasonable to me. 

Yes, powered speakers are disposable after that time frame; however, in all likelihood, better products will be around by that time as well (lighter, more robust, better sounding).  Anyone can make them sound good without any understanding of sound reinforcement.

As a side note, I still have the Klipsch 3-way tops.  They have been doing party duty in my basement with my QSC PLX3002 amplifier.  So they are around 25 years of service at this point in time.

In my previous life using passive FOH, me and many of my friends had failures.  Amps fail, drivers fail, cross-overs fail, etc.  I doubt I could repair my Klipsch now if it failed.  They are only worth around $200 (if that) on the market because they are so big and heavy (and really not that loud compared to modern powered speakers).

Is it really that different?
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Bob Leonard

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2018, 11:14:59 am »

Tim McCulloch,

I think you're aware I do not now or have I ever embraced prosumer powered cabinets, and I'll point to this thread as living proof as to why I feel that way. In my world (the OLD world) amplifiers are built to specifications based on their output capability, which is determined in no small part by the components used to create / manufacture the amplifier. QSC, Crown, etc. all have low cost low output amplifiers, and all have high output high cost amplifiers. End of point #1.

So now in todays world the highly prized and easy to move powered cabinet comes along and the masses see this as a god send. People flock to the powered cabinets like flies to honey, and soon every manufacturer has a premium powered cabinet (think JBL VP series), and a low cost powered series (think EON). The problem now becomes the race to the bottom of the cost ladder and who can push out the biggest bang for the buck, pun intended.

Certainly the amplifiers being used in the low cost world aren't the same as the manufacturers rack mount units, even the low cost rack mount units. So where is the cost of manufacturing lowered? My knowledge tells me that the cost is lowered through the use of lower cost components and simplified designs for both the cabinets and the internal amplifier, and you're right back to getting what you pay for.

I personally have a problem with not being able to swap out a cabinet or amplifier as an independent device, for many, many reasons, which I'll not get into here.

My question to you would be how many of the cabinets in your inventory are actually powered, and how many of those powered cabinets are critical to the show. I know the answer (I think), please expound.

And, shame on Yamaha and their piss poor support.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2018, 11:17:50 am »

Just as a side note.......
Lately I have not been using my DSR112's for obvious reasons - once the defective one gets repaired, I will again.
So, I have used my SRX812's a few times and for the small shows, I have been using my PRX712's. Over the years I have used the DSR's in virtually every type of situation spanning all kinds of room acoustics.
The SRX812's have a very similar sound to the DSR's IMHO leaving me very little to change EQ wise as I have said here before, so didn't notice much difference using them.  I consider them to be quite interchangeable with the Yammies actually.
However, I have chosen the PRX712's on occasion when high SPL is not expected AND they are a lot lighter to throw up on stands so they are a good choice in certain instances and a nice relief from the weight of the SRX812's.
BUT..... having gotten so used to my DSR's over the years, I can honesty say I really miss it when I am not using them.
With the PRX's nothing seems to really 'pop'. The sound is just meh.....
Last night I spent ages trying to EQ them in - horrible room BTW - but in the end I had to come to the conclusion that I was trying to make them sound like the DSR's and that isn't going to happen.
They make great monitors and I am sure no-one in the room cared about the lack of 'sparkle' but me - but wow! isn't it weird how much we get used to a certain sound and how that affects our expectation regardless of room acoustics or application?.

Disclaimer: I realize there are folks here who use PRX speakers all the time and love them and I am in no way casting aspersions on that - we all hear sound in different ways and we all have our favorites. It also depends on the application and what subs they might be coupled with too.  Trust me the PRX speaker is a fantastic box - I wouldn't own 4 of them if I didn't think so.
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Jay Marr

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2018, 12:47:09 pm »

I personally have a problem with not being able to swap out a cabinet or amplifier as an independent device, for many, many reasons, which I'll not get into here.

I have always agreed with this.  And last night was a great example for me.
I used iTechs for my (SRX728) subs and 2 front wedges.  Right when we were going on last night, my bass player's head died.  We limped through the first set with just him through the PA (which sounds fine out front, but is not a great experience on stage).  During our first break, my bass player give me his powered wedge, and I 'gave him' my side of one of the power amps.  He ran his SansAmp into the power amp, and into his bass cab....and it sounded outstanding.  This would not have been possible if all of my gear was powered.  I love the modular aspect of a passive system.

But my struggle is passive Xovers.
I own DSR112's and they sound amazing.  I also own passive JBL SRX812s.  They do not sound as good as the DSRs. 
This is very likely due to the fact that I am using a regular Crown iTech and NOT using an iTech with V5 tunings and running the cabs bi-amped.  If I went that route, I'm going to end up spending more for a new Crown amp than I did for the DSRs.
I have yet to find a cost effective way to get a passive top to sound as good as a powered top, without dropping decent money to get an amp with the proper software to Bi-Amp the cabinets.
The plug and play capability of the powered tops seems to win, even though I wish I could go all Passive.

I have not yet tried to do deep Eq tweaks to the Passive JBLs to see how good they can sound.  But out of the box, the Yammies win.

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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #138 on: March 03, 2018, 12:58:49 pm »

I have always agreed with this.  And last night was a great example for me.
I used iTechs for my (SRX728) subs and 2 front wedges.  Right when we were going on last night, my bass player's head died.  We limped through the first set with just him through the PA (which sounds fine out front, but is not a great experience on stage).  During our first break, my bass player give me his powered wedge, and I 'gave him' my side of one of the power amps.  He ran his SansAmp into the power amp, and into his bass cab....and it sounded outstanding.  This would not have been possible if all of my gear was powered.  I love the modular aspect of a passive system.

But my struggle is passive Xovers.
I own DSR112's and they sound amazing.  I also own passive JBL SRX812s.  They do not sound as good as the DSRs. 
This is very likely due to the fact that I am using a regular Crown iTech and NOT using an iTech with V5 tunings and running the cabs bi-amped.  If I went that route, I'm going to end up spending more for a new Crown amp than I did for the DSRs.
I have yet to find a cost effective way to get a passive top to sound as good as a powered top, without dropping decent money to get an amp with the proper software to Bi-Amp the cabinets.
The plug and play capability of the powered tops seems to win, even though I wish I could go all Passive.

I have not yet tried to do deep Eq tweaks to the Passive JBLs to see how good they can sound.  But out of the box, the Yammies win.

Jay, when I had my SRX700 system, I used to run the tops bi amped and I LOVED the sound I got.
I have had some regrets going powered but I do enjoy not having to coil up HUGE Speakon cables at the end of the night and carrying my huge amp rack to the shows. I also enjoy the simplicity of the powered system and the fact the internal DSP gets me to where I need to be so much easier and cheaper than before.
However, there is a trade off to everything and I went into this eyes wide open (I still miss my SRX700 system though).... Bob Leonard - I know, I know...

Regarding the bass amp situation. Well done on the creative fix.
We have no bass backline and he is iem so we and are in the habit of bringing a couple of bass processor pedals with us just in case.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
« Reply #139 on: March 03, 2018, 01:31:28 pm »

@Bob,

True enough; however, I would point out that the cost reduction in powered speakers is not necessarily the speaker "cheeping out".  Many things become less expensive when the amp lives with the speaker:

1)  No additional enclosure needed.
2)  Much more surface area for a big heat sink
3)  Amp is guaranteed only to supply a very specific load
4)  Since the DSP is also part of the module, the amp section can be reduced in cost and the DSP can address any non-linearity
5)  Built in limiting ensures that no prolonged  over-current from the amp is needed.  Limiting can be specifically setup to ensure the amp is protected.
6)  The amp module doesn't have to handle anything like bridge mode.

While it is possible to make passive speakers sound great, it comes at an increased cost in the speaker components, amp components, and outside processing.

The ease of getting good sound along with the compactness of a powered FOH (vs passive) is worth it for me.  It is nice to have the entire DSP engineered by the OEM built into the speaker.

I don't miss my amp rack or my heavy passive speakers ;)
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Re: My beloved DSR112 not well
¬ę Reply #139 on: March 03, 2018, 01:31:28 pm ¬Ľ


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