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[Matt Greiner]

I've been told, that you should never mix different cabinets together.  While I would love to just go buy more matching cabinets, my wallet would rather see if I can use gear that I already own to supplement some of my larger outdoor shows that I am taking on next summer.

I've got 4 of the Peavey QW2F's I use for my mains.  I also have 4 of the older Peavey HDH244T's sitting around, and they seem to be a similar style.  I call the HDH's the grandfather to the QW's.  Both use a 4" VC and a similar 15" woofer.  I do understand that they are slightly different in power handling and crossover points, however, I have enough processing power to run both at the same time using different channels of my processor, so that should not be an issue.

Will I get some funky comb filtering/phasing issues if I use these 2 different cabinets together.  My vision is to use 2 of each style per side (total of 4 cabinets per side), splaying a pair of QW2F's on the bottom out (horizontally) enough that the horns only overlap by about 5 degrees or so, and then place 2 of the HDH's on top (stacked vertically) and invert the top cabinet, so the horns couple and are able to throw farther.

My subs are VR218's, I currently have 4, but am hoping to add 2 to 4 more by the start of the summer concert season.

Or would there be a way to use software (SMAART, etc) to compare the 2 different cabinets?

[Steve Payne]

I've been told, that you should never mix different cabinets together.  While I would love to just go buy more matching cabinets, my wallet would rather see if I can use gear that I already own to supplement some of my larger outdoor shows that I am taking on next summer.

I've got 4 of the Peavey QW2F's I use for my mains.  I also have 4 of the older Peavey HDH244T's sitting around, and they seem to be a similar style.  I call the HDH's the grandfather to the QW's.  Both use a 4" VC and a similar 15" woofer.  I do understand that they are slightly different in power handling and crossover points, however, I have enough processing power to run both at the same time using different channels of my processor, so that should not be an issue.

Will I get some funky comb filtering/phasing issues if I use these 2 different cabinets together.  My vision is to use 2 of each style per side (total of 4 cabinets per side), splaying a pair of QW2F's on the bottom out (horizontally) enough that the horns only overlap by about 5 degrees or so, and then place 2 of the HDH's on top (stacked vertically) and invert the top cabinet, so the horns couple and are able to throw farther.

My subs are VR218's, I currently have 4, but am hoping to add 2 to 4 more by the start of the summer concert season.

Or would there be a way to use software (SMAART, etc) to compare the 2 different cabinets?

You should listen to whoever told you that you should never mix different cabinets together.  Your idea of coupling different horns together to "throw farther" should prove to be a real doozie.  I suggest you set up your rig as you have suggested.  Listen to each rig separately. Turn them both on together and listen to them.  Sounds a bit like an audio train wreck doesn't it?  Sorry.

[Chris Grimshaw]

If you have extra processor inputs and post-fader Aux sends, you could head towards the Grateful Dead approach and send different mixes to different parts of the PA.

ie, vocals and keys through a pair of tops, guitar, bass and drums through the other. Subs get another mix again.
Since the cabinets are all dealing with different signals you'll gain headroom without the lobing effects that come from putting a bunch of boxes next to each other.

I wouldn't use four cabinets per side unless they were all something like 20-30 degrees horizontal over a wide bandwidth.

Chris

[Matt Greiner]

I've attached a photo of what I am thinking.  This is not my photo, just a photo of someone else who did this.  This is where I got the idea from.

[Steve Payne]

I've attached a photo of what I am thinking.  This is not my photo, just a photo of someone else who did this.  This is where I got the idea from.

This is not how I envisioned what you described.  This is more of a near field / far field arrangement. Two seperate systems to cover two distinct areas - not really so much a "mixing of different cabinets".  With distinct processing for each system, this approach might work.

The one system for vocals, one for instruments (ala Dave Rat) always intrigued me and seemed brilliant in it's simplicity.  Recently I read a post by Sully that said he tried such a setup with a Martin MLA rig and had to abandon it because it sounded like ass.  Seemed the reality of instrument bleed into the vocal mics was killing the theoretical separate sources for each system.  The resulting phase shift was hitting the suck button big time. 

[Don T. Williams]

Matt, are you needing to get more level or better coverage out of your system, or just "make it look bigger" for these shows?  I don't mean this as a snide remark.  What are you trying to achieve in the end?

If you have the processing power, and the components in each cabinet are the same, you might try bypassing the passive cross-overs and bi-amping the cabinets.  This entails it's own set of challenges and issues but the results could be a better match of phase and frequency response.  If you have followed this forum for very long you will already know: more cabinets will almost always result in worse sound quality with not much improvement is output level.       

[Matt Greiner]

This is not how I envisioned what you described.  This is more of a near field / far field arrangement. Two seperate systems to cover two distinct areas - not really so much a "mixing of different cabinets".  With distinct processing for each system, this approach might work.

I was thinking that my concept wasn't fully communicated the way I intended it to be.
Yes my intent is a near field/far field configuration.  Some of the shows in doing are in a parking lot that is approx 50' wide and 250' deep.  The stage is at one end, covering the lot.
My main concern was if there would be major issues in the near field with this setup.

[Matt Greiner]

Matt, are you needing to get more level or better coverage out of your system, or just "make it look bigger" for these shows?  I don't mean this as a snide remark.  What are you trying to achieve in the end?

If you have the processing power, and the components in each cabinet are the same, you might try bypassing the passive cross-overs and bi-amping the cabinets.  This entails it's own set of challenges and issues but the results could be a better match of phase and frequency response.  If you have followed this forum for very long you will already know: more cabinets will almost always result in worse sound quality with not much improvement is output level.     

I'm sure some people are, but I'm not interested in lifting extra cabs for perceived SPL.  Lol.

Better coverage.  I think I get good levels out of the 4 qw2's that I normally use.
I do bi-amp these normally for bands.  I use VSX-26's (2 inputs, 6 outputs) for processing.  For larger shows I have one VSX-26 per side.  This allows me to have extra channels of processing, as well as being able to keep my speaker cables short by having on amp rack on each side.  In fact, I tried it once last year running it 4 way, using my subs for just the kick, then ran a different set of 18" for the bass guitar, and the mains bi-amped.  I'm going to try that again, I think it has good potential.

[Dave Garoutte]

For long, narrow events, consider using delay speakers 1/2 way back.
This allows reasonable volume to the back without blasting the front.
A mis-matched with FOH cabinet shouldn't be as much of a problem either.

[Don T. Williams]

For long, narrow events, consider using delay speakers 1/2 way back.
This allows reasonable volume to the back without blasting the front.

+1 for Dave's post.  I didn't know exactly what you were wanting before.  You can run delay stacks with subs in both locations or just leave the subs by the stage if you want a little more oomph there.  To time allign the system, a guitar tuner with a metronome out works for fine adjustments.  If you have not tried (and have the processing to do so), running the subs off an axillary send can really clean up a system.  Send only really low instruments (kick, bass, etc.) through the aux. sub send .  You can run the mains full range or hi-pass filtered.  Because your mains are 15" you have some leeway.

[Matt Greiner]

Yeah unfortunately delay stacks are just not a realistic option.  It's for a bike night so there will be a lot of motorcycle traffic through the whole area I'm covering.  I do appreciate that idea though.  I'll try and post a picture when I get home of the event last year.

[Rob Spence]

Most events that are long and narrow end up with music lovers up near the stage and the folk who like hear the music but really want to talk at the other end.
If it were me, I would focus on the 100’ closest to the stage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Don T. Williams]

Most events that are long and narrow end up with music lovers up near the stage and the folk who like hear the music but really want to talk at the other end.
If it were me, I would focus on the 100’ closest to the stage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Rob, you are right.  There are always those people who set themselves 150' from the stage and then say they couldn't hear well . .  AND those who set themselves 10' from the speakers and complain its too loud!

[Ivan Beaver]

Rob, you are right.  There are always those people who set themselves 150' from the stage and then say they couldn't hear well . .  AND those who set themselves 10' from the speakers and complain its too loud!

Could the person who is complaining it is to loud, kindly change places with the person who thinks it isn't loud enough.

Problem solved-----

I have done that when I have 2 people come up to FOH and complain about the levels.

[brian maddox]

Could the person who is complaining it is to loud, kindly change places with the person who thinks it isn't loud enough.

Problem solved-----

I have done that when I have 2 people come up to FOH and complain about the levels.

I have a friend in the biz with a particularly cryptic response to "i can't hear over [wherever] but it sounds okay over [wherever]".  He generally responds [in a lovely deep south african accent] "if you cannot hear where the sound is NOT, go to where the sound IS".

[Wayne Smith2]

The last few in this thread just made my morning'.
:>)

[Dave Batistig]

I've been told, that you should never mix different cabinets together.  While I would love to just go buy more matching cabinets, my wallet would rather see if I can use gear that I already own to supplement some of my larger outdoor shows that I am taking on next summer.

I've got 4 of the Peavey QW2F's I use for my mains.  I also have 4 of the older Peavey HDH244T's sitting around, and they seem to be a similar style.  I call the HDH's the grandfather to the QW's.  Both use a 4" VC and a similar 15" woofer.  I do understand that they are slightly different in power handling and crossover points, however, I have enough processing power to run both at the same time using different channels of my processor, so that should not be an issue.

Will I get some funky comb filtering/phasing issues if I use these 2 different cabinets together.  My vision is to use 2 of each style per side (total of 4 cabinets per side), splaying a pair of QW2F's on the bottom out (horizontally) enough that the horns only overlap by about 5 degrees or so, and then place 2 of the HDH's on top (stacked vertically) and invert the top cabinet, so the horns couple and are able to throw farther.

My subs are VR218's, I currently have 4, but am hoping to add 2 to 4 more by the start of the summer concert season.

Or would there be a way to use software (SMAART, etc) to compare the 2 different cabinets?

Where are you located? I have a pair of QW2F cabs for sale

[Jack Arnott]

If your cabinets cross over at different places, you will have phase issues.
You will already have phase issues, but with two different crossover points, you will have different, and competing phase issues.

[ProSoundWeb Community]