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Author Topic: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow  (Read 7320 times)

Terry Martin

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #30 on: December 21, 2017, 12:09:04 pm »

Iíve been following your band on FB.  Youíve got a good looking light rig (our acts are similar). 

TM
Yoan, sounds like you're getting some great advice here. I just clicked the link on your light selections, and agree with Paul's advice on getting flat pars with multi-colored led's as opposed to the 3mm "LiteBright" lights from when they first started showing up.

And I think Jeff mentioned cheap disposable lights. That is what I use, and most of my lights are less than $50. I've had them for about 3 years now and have not had a failure. The lightweight, plastic construction makes them easier to transport and set up. My main backlight is a RBGW 7-10 watt led that can be purchased in groups of 4 for about $33 each. They work fantastic at this price point.

For front spots, I use a simple Par 38 with a screw-in 90W halogen bulb that equals about 150 W equivalent. These lights are about $25 each, and I prefer them on peoples faces over most budget priced led's. I simply thread them on to the fly points on my speaker boxes. The photo below shows a single light, but I've since fabricated a bracket that holds 2 lights. One thumbscrew in to the speaker and I'm done. You can purchase a small dmx dimmer for these, but I just use them either off or on. I use a Rosco Rose gel in each front spot.

Below are pictures of the spot light, and our back lighting at one of our gigs. The cheap lights look great in numbers, and smoke is a must.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Terry Martin

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[Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #31 on: December 21, 2017, 12:17:33 pm »

Some shots of our rig. 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #32 on: December 21, 2017, 12:20:04 pm »

  Doesn't happen. I mean the uncontrolled flashing fixture, this is one of those cases where a small impedance mismatch doesn't have any effect. Wireless DMX.. now that is another story.

I am unconcerned with the failure mode, just the tolerance for risk.

Their are lurkers on the forum that place great meaning and value into the advice proffered here.  You can do whatever you want and summer (or not) the potential consequences.

There is a big difference between assessing your situation and assuming a risk and telling other folks it's a good idea to use the wrong cable.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Yoan Geay

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #33 on: December 21, 2017, 12:26:18 pm »

Ok, Thanks for the insight Paul !

-----------------------------------------------

[FCB1010] - Few things to discuss :
As I don't find any other good MIDI Footswitch, Layed-Out like this one.
[Practically speaking, it's quite the only one out there, (Really Popular for a reason)]

I think I've found two workarounds for the "Lack of Banks" issue on the Footswitch.
[Past Bank 10 - Preset 10] Here's the First One :
Quote
But also, wanted to add that you can program scenes for the other 15 midi channels as well, so you could actually have 128 scenes for midi channel 1, then another 128 for midi channel 2 and so on...so you could actually have 2,048 different scenes to choose from! Amazing stuff...

In Practice, that sounds quite tedious for a "Regular usage". If I go either by the "Software" solution or the "Hardware" one, [DMX Controller], it would probably be a pain in the a**, while Performing Live to :
  • Have to Manually change the MIDI Channel > Select the Needed One [1 to **], on the FCB1010.
  • Have to Manually change the MIDI Channel > Select the Needed One, [1 to **], on either the DMX Controller or in the Software.
Both the Footswitch & either the Software/Hardware have to be set up to the Same MIDI Channel in order to work together properly. Still, according to the Quote, that would work though. & maybe I'm wrong on the Practice Side of this too...

-----------------------------

The other way around :
Some of you may have heard about "Upgrades", just by simply replacing the EPROM Chip inside the FCB1010, really simple to do.
Do it Once > Done. [Few Screws to Remove > Replace the Chip by Hand (Less than 5min - Total)]

There are two Very Popular ones, specifically made for the FCB1010 :
  • The UnO - Feature Set > Which corrects some Bugs that comes "Stock" with the FCB1010 & adds few Additional Features.
  • The EurekaSound! - Feature Set > Which we shouldn't care about I think, it seems to be mostly addressed towards Guitar Players with lots of Boxes Pedals.
    [it removes some of the Original Features in the FCB1010 as well, so...]
But I've a found Third one ! Feasible, but more Complicated :
  • The LG-FCB - Feature Set > Among other things, what it does is that, it simply expands the Banks of the Footswitch from 10 to 100 ! It's not a simple Chip Replacement though... It's a Full Kit Installation.
    [PDF Link - Page 10 : https://goo.gl/DifHmS - Installation PDF Link : https://goo.gl/tAoHHN]
Sadly I can't find any places on the Internet that Sells this Kit.
If you have any other Ideas for a MIDI Footswitch, I'd take a look at everything you could provide.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 12:36:21 pm by Yoan Geay »
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Steve Garris

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #34 on: December 21, 2017, 01:51:26 pm »

I use a Chauvet Obey 40 Difi to control my show and use a FCB1010 along with it.  I wanted to avoid a laptop solution and dont feel like I compromised the quality significantly with the less elaborate controller.  I use the Chauvet wireless in the Obey 40 to get the signal to the light trees and then run off of the back trees to the movers.  The wireless works well at these distances.

I control the following:
4 - Chauvet Intimidator Spot 355
2 - Chauvet Spot Duo
4 - Chauvet 4Bar TRI USB

I use banks of the FCB1010 for a set of scenes for each of us that sing.  I have 2 banks for each member (we all sing) and two for specials.  I use the built in movement programs in the movers which actually works well.  You can adjust from a fast movement down to a slow sweep and it acts a lot like if I had programmed the movement myself.

Side note, the 4Bar TRI individual lights are actually brighter than the four of the Chauvet Slimpar64 and super easy to setup since they are already mounted on a bar.  The wireless is a bonus.

https://youtu.be/rclMyoBnEao

Very nice. Love the Spot Duo's!
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Steve Garris

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #35 on: December 21, 2017, 02:10:00 pm »


Thank you for your Feedback on the PARs Cans aswell ! I'll make it up my mind !
Damn, these Photos looks Gorgeous, that's typically what I would be happy with. I think that's enough for what we do.
And you own that Full Truss Structure aswell ? Or was it the Venue's Propriety.

The truss belongs to the club, as well as the larger lights, but those are still $50 lights. We hang our T-Bar lights from their truss, doubling the venue's light show. I run it on a Magic 260 while mixing sound with an iPad.

My stand-alone rental consists of 3 light trees. The outer (2) are run by the Magic 260, and the center tree behind the drums is all sound activated. This way I can just bring the center tree for small, low money gigs and still provide some lighting but with no effort. When I use the dmx controller, I use the Donner wireless dmx transmitter & receivers, so no dmx cables at all (the tree's are pre-wired). They go up really quick.

This is some of my lights on trees, in a very small venue - the truss really makes a huge difference. I don't have 1 oz of room left in my truck, so trussing will have to come later when I can afford to by a larger vehicle.

Sorry for the crappy iPhone pic:
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Jeff Lelko

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 08:50:01 pm »

  Doesn't happen. I mean the uncontrolled flashing fixture, this is one of those cases where a small impedance mismatch doesn't have any effect. Wireless DMX.. now that is another story.

This absolutely does happen - maybe just not to you yet.  Thereís more to the DMX cable than just a higher impedance, namely the cable type itself and that itís specifically made to conform to the DMX specification.  Using anything that fails to meet this specification can cause undesired operation from fixtures such as flashing, jittering, etc. 

Iím not sure what you mean by ďdata traffic densityĒ either as DMX is unidirectional and must conform to a very set standard.  Iím glad to hear that youíve gotten lucky using regular XLR in your rig (and letís face it, weíve all done it), but I think thatís very poor advice to give someone just starting out with lighting.  Quality DMX doesnít cost any more than quality XLR, so why not do it right and be done with it?  While all Daisy Chains should be terminated, a terminator is by no means a magic bullet that gives you a free pass to use inferior or improper cable.  In fact, if you read some of the publications by Doug Fleenor he even suggests that problems solved by using a terminator on a very short (under 500ft) line of DMX are usually indicative of a deeper issue within the system such as poor cable, weak console signal, etc., and not just lack of termination.  My experience tends to agree with him.
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Allen Smith

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2017, 09:30:37 pm »

Im gonna try and respond to all your questions but if I miss one ask it again.

You might be over thinking how many scenes you need.  The reality is that having 10 good scenes or in my example 2 banks of ten provides all the variety you need.  I would go so far as to say you run out of interesting combinations after that.  I am a fan of no more than 2 colors at a time which is kind of an old school PAR show thing.  The other important part is to get angles so that your colors arent just mixing to create white.  An example, I hit the back of the drums with one color and the front sides with another so you get some cool depth and color effect.  Some of the best old school light shows I have ever seen only used maybe 30 scenes and that was pre moving lights.

I use a bank for each vocalist but in that bank the top right 2 scenes are the guitar player for solos.  It is a pretty cool effect to move the spot to a new focal point as needed.  I also rarely look down.  I set bank number at the beginning of a song and it stays on that bank for the duration with a few exception for special scenes on particular songs.  During the song I play and sing and change scenes at points that accent the song but I dont get caught up on which scene I choose, the change is key not what you change to. 

As far as programming the movers, with DMX control you can set almost everything how you want it.  I choose the color, gobo, etc to match the scene and the colors of the other lights.  Some I choose a static placement and others I use my settings in conjunction with the built in movement macros.  Many scenes I set a pair on one movement macro and the other on a different one and it looks very sophisticated in spite of the fact I didnt create the movement pattern. 

I considered all of the control options you are looking at.  Many are good.  I chose something simpler to setup in large part because we are a three piece band with no production support.  We can drop the ramp on the trailer and be ready to play in an hour and 15 minutes with everything in the video.  The only hesitation I have about my control scheme is that it is not backed up anywhere which with a laptop you could do.

One note regarding programming.  You have to plan.  If you sit down at any controller and try to program without an end in mind you will fail.  I went so far as to create an Excel spreadsheet which spelled out the scenes in each bank, what colors would be in them, whether movers would move, what spots would be on etc.  I even went so far as to put in the value of each DMX channel on each fixture.  It was tedious but I programmed most of my scenes in less than 2 hours because of it and the outcome really hasnt changed much since my initial program. 

Planning your programming also allows you to plan a show that scales.  We use a range of lighting depending on the gig and I use the same controller and same scenes.
8 PARS
8 PARS WITH TWO MOVERS
8 PARS FRONT WITH 8 PARS BACK
8 PARS WITH 4 MOVERS
8 PARS WITH 8 PARS BACK AND 2 MOVERS
8 PARS WITH 8 PARS BACK AND 4 FLOORS MOVERS AND 4 MOVERS UP

Anyway have fun and good luck.  If its not fun its not worth doing.

Allen, looks fantastic !
About the FCB1010 Bank System, as it goes up to a Maximum of 10 Banks.
And say we play 20+ Songs, where each Song would have it's dedicated Bank.
Then, I'd be F**ked... ?

When you say you're using the "Built-In", [Patterns of Movements], from your Movers...
You're still able to Select the Mover's Colors & still let them do their things ?

I'm asking this because, I wouldn't want my Movers to dispay "Drastically Opposite Colors".
You know, the Theoritical Concept of Colors Matching with certain Colors & not so much with others.
[Even though, there are no Rules really]
If you can set them to Match what your PARs are showing, while keeping them Free, then it's great !

Aside to that, you wouldn't change for the Solutions that I've been suggested to use ?
[Software/DMXis/Etc] I'm curious about your opinion on that.
Thank you for your Feedback !

-----------------------------

Paul,
Just to understand that XLR vs DMX thing. [The 120Ω Resistance Difference]
If you use an XLR, you then need a Terminator at the End of your Chain, but :
  • Does that mean a proprer DMX Cable is a "Terminator" in itself ? Or do you still have to look out for a Special Cable with an already "Built-in" Terminator in it.

-----------------------------

Now, regarding the FCB1010 Limitations to 10 Banks, using a Software Based Solution, if it happens that it doesn't go further up, that probably wouldn't be a big deal though.
As I could :
  • Not Buy a FCB1010 in the first place.
  • Buy a Standard MIDI Footswitch, that suits my needs + a couple of "Side" MIDI Expression Pedals.
That would be a Viable Option, correct ?

------------------------------

Hey Callan !
This "Issue" crossed my mind also... Only actual Practice will let me know what's best, so...
Thank you for the Input & the Encouragements, I'll keep that in mind !
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Allen Smith

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2017, 09:32:09 pm »

Hey Allen, do you have any more pics of your truss? Both during set up and how much space in the truck it takes up?
I like your video, the back truss is where I'm thinking of going next.
Cheers

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

I actually dont use truss.  If you look close it is 4 Ultimate Support tripods in back and two in front.  I just raise them to the same height and it sort of looks like a truss.
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Allen Smith

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Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2017, 09:35:10 pm »

Very nice. Love the Spot Duo's!

Thanks!

The spot duos are a nice throw back to the pin spots in old rock shows.  They also throw a narrow enough beam that they are bright enough to cut through.  I love them and I would like to add four more fixtures. 

I went to a Green Day show and I have this evil plan, now if I only had more money...
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: [Seeking Advices] - Setting Up our Band's Lightshow
¬ę Reply #39 on: December 21, 2017, 09:35:10 pm ¬Ľ


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