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Author Topic: Transmitters in bread pans  (Read 6511 times)

Keith Broughton

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2017, 04:37:47 pm »

Those are at 10mw.  These are 4 mics in close proximity at 50 mw


A very clear demonstration that "more is better" may not be better!
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John Sulek

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2017, 04:39:19 pm »

Those are at 10mw.  These are 4 mics in close proximity at 50 mw



The higher RBW and VBW settings are affecting the resolution in this screen shot compared to the previous examples.
There will undoubtedly be many more intermod spurs at the higher power setting, but the lower resolution could make them appear much wider than they might be.
Thank you for putting in the time to do these tests and post the results.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2017, 07:00:06 pm »

I have been thinking of using steal loaf pans for the wireless body packs. The last show I did in November we were using 30 and when we lined them up to test them before putting them on the actors I noticed more interference (intermods) than ever before. To get enough channels working together in WWB (Wireless Work Bench) I had to use the “More Frequencies” settings. I assume that possibly made them more susceptible to audible interference. It was extremely minor but it was there. I am really just testing them at this point to make sure all the mics hooked up to the transmitters are still working properly. We had a lot of cable problems for this show. It was very rough on the mics. We always test them before every show just to help catch any problem ones early.

Once the mics are on everyone there aren’t any intermod problems that I have ever noticed. But due to mic swaps that are needed, there might be times during the show when there are enough mics back stage waiting to get put on a different actor that I am a little bit concerned that some intermods may be created when they are sitting waiting. But they are far enough away from the stage that they aren’t usually picked up on the receivers from back there. So I would assume that if they are creating intermods from sitting too close they probably aren’t strong enough to cause a real problem. But being paranoid isn’t always a bad thing.

I was wondering about maybe coating the inside of the pan with some sort of rubber material. Maybe just to keep things from clanking around or to help keep the packs from getting scratched up. But with the possible problems that started these recent threads, it got me wondering if with the pans were lined would that in any way affect it. Especially if there is a bare spot on the end of the antenna, like can happen with the Shure’s if they lose their antenna cap.     

This past weekend I did a show where I had 6 wireless handheld mics on the leftover frequencies from the 30 mic show and when monitoring the receivers on my computer running WWB I noticed that when the mics were on stands sitting pretty close together waiting to get put on stage, I saw an overload light on the RF meters on the B antenna on one of the receivers. I went down and readjusted where the mics were sitting and the light went off. This got me thinking more about the inference that the wireless can cause when too close to each other. The receivers and receive antenna weren’t too close. The antennas were up in the air about 20 feet away. I thought that maybe the gain switch on the paddle antenna was set too high, it was set to +6 and I changed it to 0, but I still got the overload light when the mics were arranged in a certain way. This was with 50 feet of cable to reach from the antenna to the antenna distro.

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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2017, 07:23:03 pm »

I have used the same set of 8 MiPro wireless in conjunction with some Shure SLX Receivers for several years-and always fought intereference on the MiPro's.  We wind up doing mutiple mic changes and mics are together quite often-though nowhere near FOH.  I have a helper tending to the mics-use an iPad connected to the QU to view the metering to make sure mics are at least getting a signal.   This year I asked her to use a metal pan for the mics-it made a world of difference almost no mic issues-other than a broken cable or 2 (on rentals so to be expected I guess).

The MiPros have insane battery life anyway-so any degradation due to the pan is a non-issue with them.
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Steve Swaffer

Ike Zimbel

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2017, 08:55:53 pm »

I have been thinking of using steal loaf pans for the wireless body packs. The last show I did in November we were using 30 and when we lined them up to test them before putting them on the actors I noticed more interference (intermods) than ever before. To get enough channels working together in WWB (Wireless Work Bench) I had to use the “More Frequencies” settings. I assume that possibly made them more susceptible to audible interference. It was extremely minor but it was there. I am really just testing them at this point to make sure all the mics hooked up to the transmitters are still working properly. We had a lot of cable problems for this show. It was very rough on the mics. We always test them before every show just to help catch any problem ones early.

Once the mics are on everyone there aren’t any intermod problems that I have ever noticed. But due to mic swaps that are needed, there might be times during the show when there are enough mics back stage waiting to get put on a different actor that I am a little bit concerned that some intermods may be created when they are sitting waiting. But they are far enough away from the stage that they aren’t usually picked up on the receivers from back there. So I would assume that if they are creating intermods from sitting too close they probably aren’t strong enough to cause a real problem. But being paranoid isn’t always a bad thing.

I was wondering about maybe coating the inside of the pan with some sort of rubber material. Maybe just to keep things from clanking around or to help keep the packs from getting scratched up. But with the possible problems that started these recent threads, it got me wondering if with the pans were lined would that in any way affect it. Especially if there is a bare spot on the end of the antenna, like can happen with the Shure’s if they lose their antenna cap.     

This past weekend I did a show where I had 6 wireless handheld mics on the leftover frequencies from the 30 mic show and when monitoring the receivers on my computer running WWB I noticed that when the mics were on stands sitting pretty close together waiting to get put on stage, I saw an overload light on the RF meters on the B antenna on one of the receivers. I went down and readjusted where the mics were sitting and the light went off. This got me thinking more about the inference that the wireless can cause when too close to each other. The receivers and receive antenna weren’t too close. The antennas were up in the air about 20 feet away. I thought that maybe the gain switch on the paddle antenna was set too high, it was set to +6 and I changed it to 0, but I still got the overload light when the mics were arranged in a certain way. This was with 50 feet of cable to reach from the antenna to the antenna distro.
Good idea to use the tins. With belt packs, any loaf tin from the super market will work. For hand-helds, or stick mics as they're called in the broadcast world, the Weber 6417 drip pan is just the ticket. I find very often, when working with A-2's, they think that the head of the mic goes in the pan and they put them in with the antenna end resting on one end of the pan, which defeats the purpose. Takes a bit of explaining but they usually get it.
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~Ike Zimbel~
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2017, 09:00:50 pm »

I find very often, when working with A-2's, they think that the head of the mic goes in the pan and they put them in with the antenna end resting on one end of the pan, which defeats the purpose. Takes a bit of explaining but they usually get it.

You need to hang out with a better class of A2s.

Mac
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2017, 09:06:09 pm »

You need to hang out with a better class of A2s.

Mac
True enough! To be fair, a lot of them are really young kids, just getting started in the biz.
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~Ike Zimbel~
Wireless frequency coordination specialist.
Manufacturer's Representative (Canada)

Radio Active Designs
~416-720-0887~
ca.linkedin.com/pub/ike-zimbel/48/aa1/266

John Sulek

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2017, 11:26:47 pm »

True enough! To be fair, a lot of them are really young kids, just getting started in the biz.

One day I will be available...lol.
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2017, 11:38:03 pm »

Good idea to use the tins. With belt packs, any loaf tin from the super market will work. For hand-helds, or stick mics as they're called in the broadcast world, the Weber 6417 drip pan is just the ticket. I find very often, when working with A-2's, they think that the head of the mic goes in the pan and they put them in with the antenna end resting on one end of the pan, which defeats the purpose. Takes a bit of explaining but they usually get it.

Thank you for the specific model number of the longer aluminum pans. Saves me a bunch of research time!
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John Sulek

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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 11:44:34 pm »

I have been thinking of using steal loaf pans for the wireless body packs. The last show I did in November we were using 30 and when we lined them up to test them before putting them on the actors I noticed more interference (intermods) than ever before. To get enough channels working together in WWB (Wireless Work Bench) I had to use the “More Frequencies” settings. I assume that possibly made them more susceptible to audible interference. It was extremely minor but it was there. I am really just testing them at this point to make sure all the mics hooked up to the transmitters are still working properly. We had a lot of cable problems for this show. It was very rough on the mics. We always test them before every show just to help catch any problem ones early.

Once the mics are on everyone there aren’t any intermod problems that I have ever noticed. But due to mic swaps that are needed, there might be times during the show when there are enough mics back stage waiting to get put on a different actor that I am a little bit concerned that some intermods may be created when they are sitting waiting. But they are far enough away from the stage that they aren’t usually picked up on the receivers from back there. So I would assume that if they are creating intermods from sitting too close they probably aren’t strong enough to cause a real problem. But being paranoid isn’t always a bad thing.

I was wondering about maybe coating the inside of the pan with some sort of rubber material. Maybe just to keep things from clanking around or to help keep the packs from getting scratched up. But with the possible problems that started these recent threads, it got me wondering if with the pans were lined would that in any way affect it. Especially if there is a bare spot on the end of the antenna, like can happen with the Shure’s if they lose their antenna cap.     

This past weekend I did a show where I had 6 wireless handheld mics on the leftover frequencies from the 30 mic show and when monitoring the receivers on my computer running WWB I noticed that when the mics were on stands sitting pretty close together waiting to get put on stage, I saw an overload light on the RF meters on the B antenna on one of the receivers. I went down and readjusted where the mics were sitting and the light went off. This got me thinking more about the inference that the wireless can cause when too close to each other. The receivers and receive antenna weren’t too close. The antennas were up in the air about 20 feet away. I thought that maybe the gain switch on the paddle antenna was set too high, it was set to +6 and I changed it to 0, but I still got the overload light when the mics were arranged in a certain way. This was with 50 feet of cable to reach from the antenna to the antenna distro.

Use the pans and these intermod problems at the rf table will not be such a huge issue.
You can lay a piece of towel, rubber mat or duvetyn in the bottom if you are worried about scratches. It won't affect the shielding properties as long as you keep the antenna portion of the mic or body pack inside the pan.

Mics close together on stands can interact same as they do stacked up on a table...you could "wargame" your coordination by turning off one transmitter at a time to make sure the rf meters go dark.
Or alternate the position of the antenna portion if they must remain on stands.

I don't usually use any gain on the rx antenna for only 50 feet of quality cable. You are raising the rf noise floor which can get you closer to rf overload faster.

That's my 2 cents but there are many others way more knowledgeable than myself on this site freely sharing their wisdom.


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Re: Transmitters in bread pans
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2017, 11:44:34 pm »


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