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Author Topic: So this guy told me....  (Read 7698 times)

Ike Zimbel

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2017, 08:45:18 pm »

OK, back to the main topic, battery life in metal pans.

Here is the final chart, rearranged a little from yesterday.

The trend looks stable regarding free-standing vs. ferrous vs. non-ferrous, although the exact numbers are a little different. Today the aluminum foil pan was the worst even though it was the same mic as yesterday.

I realized that I moved the two pans together to get them under the speaker, which probably put the aluminum pan in the influence of the steel pan, so it got the worst of both worlds, maybe. (Second Picture)

The diminished life could be also due to the fact that they were all working harder doing audio processing, although that effect can't be very great with these mics since the overall battery life differences at each step for each condition between audio/no audio seem almost to be within margin of error.

I did what I felt I could to light them up without slamming too much (Third, Fourth, and Fifth Pictures)

The music that I chose, since I was going to be listening to it for a while off and on, was a 9.5 hour playlist of my favorite reggae band, Steel Pulse. Although I thought repeating the playlist twice would be sufficient, I'm afraid that a new variant of Mortensen's First Law (about 3/4 down an entertaining page) was discovered with this test.

Instead of running out before the test, the music ran out about a minute before the first transmitter died, so I can't tell audio behavior at the end of battery life. I also forgot to record the audio signals from the mics, so I don't know if they go bad as they go off, or for how long they sound bad before shutting off.

Regardless, the pans are good to reduce intermods despite a minor hit on battery life.

One other thing: Has anyone used metal mesh pans instead of solid? I'm kind of surprised at how heavy a bunch of steel pans are.

This was an interesting homework project for this student. I've learned a lot about these mics and about measurement.
Thanks for doing all of this research, Dan. My takeaway from it is that while it seems true that the pans shorten battery life, you're looking at ten hours to get down to two bars in any case. Usually by the time 10 hours has gone by, the gig is over anyway...at least on the gigs I'm doing.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #41 on: December 19, 2017, 10:50:11 am »

Slow day (and it's not even 10am yet) so I tried out the suggestion of directly measuring current draw.  In general I found that the little display light caused more of a change than putting the transmitter into a bread pan.

Only beltpack transmitters tested.  Might be interesting to test a handheld to see if there's a significant difference between dynamic and condensor heads.

UHF-R: 0.156 loose, 0.158 in a pan.  Making noise through a lav *reduced* current draw.
ULXD: 0.150 loose, 0.165 in a steel pan, 0.170 in an aluminum foil pan.  Display on 0.175
Axient Digital 0.229 loose, 0.240 in a pan. Was curious about these because they actively tweak the antenna tuning.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2017, 11:57:23 am »

Slow day (and it's not even 10am yet) so I tried out the suggestion of directly measuring current draw.  In general I found that the little display light caused more of a change than putting the transmitter into a bread pan.

Only beltpack transmitters tested.  Might be interesting to test a handheld to see if there's a significant difference between dynamic and condensor heads.

UHF-R: 0.156 loose, 0.158 in a pan.  Making noise through a lav *reduced* current draw.
ULXD: 0.150 loose, 0.165 in a steel pan, 0.170 in an aluminum foil pan.  Display on 0.175
Axient Digital 0.229 loose, 0.240 in a pan. Was curious about these because they actively tweak the antenna tuning.
Thank you,  looks like the typical audio (RF?) myths, a little bit of truth but mostly so what.

Maybe we need a new sub forum called SR mythbusters.

JR
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Scott Helmke

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2017, 02:56:28 pm »

Thank you,  looks like the typical audio (RF?) myths, a little bit of truth but mostly so what.

But take a closer look at the Axient Digital numbers - that's about a 10% difference, though it wasn't always that dramatic.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2017, 04:00:56 pm »

But take a closer look at the Axient Digital numbers - that's about a 10% difference, though it wasn't always that dramatic.
This looks to me like an opportunity to create a new mic accessory product.  8)

Not me but somebody with a clue about modern RF technology. I suspect (but do not know) that a mic cozy could be developed that has the effect of reducing the RF level (and IM) without increasing battery drain.

My gut feeling (but uninformed opinion) is that the blocking effect will still work as long as the mics are effectively surrounded by a ground plane (oops metal pan), but spacing some distance away from the antenna could reduce load coupling and battery drain.

I do not suggest a full 1/4 wavelength distance, more like a couple inches, or some clever mic cozies.

If 10% is a problem how about switching them off when not in use? A clever mic manufacturer could use a hall effect device to idle the transmitter when it detects proximity to a metal pan... of course this needs to not accidentally interfere with normal operation.

Yes there is something there, but unlikely to affect rechargeable batteries differently or be a show stopper.

JR

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Listen to what a properly "cleared" drum sounds like.   http://circularscience.com/

Dan Mortensen

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #45 on: December 19, 2017, 04:31:55 pm »

But take a closer look at the Axient Digital numbers - that's about a 10% difference, though it wasn't always that dramatic.

Isn't the ULX-D exactly 10% for steel and a little more (why?) for aluminum? Were the pans exactly the same size or was the aluminum one deeper or something?

I don't think that my methodology proved my supposition that ferrous is more effective at blocking these waves than aluminum. Your methodology more closely achieved JR's mandate to minimize variables...

Thank you for giving us that data.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: So this guy told me....
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2017, 05:15:50 pm »

Isn't the ULX-D exactly 10% for steel and a little more (why?) for aluminum? Were the pans exactly the same size or was the aluminum one deeper or something?

This test wasn't quite as organized.  To some extent it was an excuse to fool around with my Mooshimeter on company time. :)

Anyway, the steel pan was a pretty solid bread pan, while the aluminum was a cheap foil pan. So more differences than just material.
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