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Author Topic: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.  (Read 1862 times)

Tyler Herring

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Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« on: December 30, 2005, 11:43:21 am »

It's come time for us to relinquish our borrowed equipment and put together a permanet install.  We've got around $6000 to spend on new mains, amps, subs and maybe some more/different processors.  We will be keeping our monitors and soundboard.  

I've lurked here enough to know that the first line of advice for a newb like me is "hire a sound consultant."  So, can anyone recommend to me a consultant in the Houston area.  Our church is in Wharton, Texas, which is relatively close to Houston (45ish min south down US59).

I'm no sound engineer, but I am an mechanical engineer and I'm not afraid of equations, and complex reading.  I'd really like to be semi-knowledgeable before we hire someone to come check our space out.  Is there any other good reading material that y'all can point me to besides the Study Hall to help get me up to speed.

I'm sure once we get started putting this all together i'll have plenty more questions.  Thanks for any help you might have for me.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2005, 01:00:32 pm »

With your budget, you are not going to be able to get a consultant AND a system. Sorry.

The first thing you need to put together is a list of your actual needs.  These would include: What type of youth service are they doing? Light-heavy etc. how large is your room- what are the acoustics of the space and so forth.  Also you need to include everything you plan on keeping-to help to develope the list for actual items needed.  You need to put the most important items first-then you can add other items later.  

If you start with a good infrastructure, it is easy to add to-if you get more money later.  Start with a system  you can expand, and not try to get a "complete"  system that is inadequate and will have to replaced with a complete system later.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

Tyler Herring

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2005, 03:40:37 pm »

Thanks for the advise.  I'll follow your suggestions and probably be back later down the road with specific questions.  

I have very little experince with Pro sound, but in the home and car fields install and tuning is more important that equipment most times.  We will just take our time and do a bunch of reading Smile
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Philip Soash

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2005, 03:59:14 pm »

I agree with Ivan from the standpoint of hiring a consultant.  But that may not be what you need for this job.  An experienced contractor should be able to spec and install a system for the budget you have.  Just know that from my experience you will probably spend around $1,000 minimum for the install fee alone.

Without knowing your needs or expectations, I would say that you will get a couple of top boxes and an amp.

My recommendation is to have two or three contractors bid the project.  That will give you an opportunity to work the different contractors and hopefully you will build a good relationship with one of them.  It will certainly let you know if your budget is with in reason.

Good Hunting Smile
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Phil

"That's it!  I'm coming out of the booth!!"

Matthew Tee

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2005, 12:59:15 pm »

What size is your room? What are your needs? Is there a band? If so, what kind of band & how many pieces? What other considerations do you have? Is this a permanant install?

I put together an inexpensive setup from scratch for the young adult group at my church. It came in at about $6,000 and we could have shaved a few extra dollars off of that but there were some things I didn't want to skimp on. I will list the equipment below to give you a good idea of what you might be working with. Watch for my comments too. This system easily fills a room of 250.

MIxer: Allen & Heath Mix Wizard 16:2 (great mixer with excellent preamps)
Speakers: EV Force-i (2) 18" subs, (2) 15" tops, (2) 12" wedges (excellent for the price)
Amps: (2) Crown CE-2000, Crown XLS-402 (I don't like the XLS, stick with the CEs)
FOH Processing: DBX Drive Rack PA (you could get by with a stereo EQ and crossover)
Monitor EQ: DBX 215 Dual 15-band EQ
Mics: Shure SM-58s
cables, racks, mic stands, CD-player, snake

This might give you a little bit to work off of. It probable isn't to total solution for you, but its a start.
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Garbage in. Garbage out.

Roy Richards

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 07:14:18 pm »

Matthew...
great list. I would like to see more info from the Tyler on what they are keeping, program format, and the room size.
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Duane Massey

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 10:30:56 pm »

Hiring a consultant would definitely drain your budget; you might consider working with a contractor in Houston on a DIY with technical assistance approach. Most of your budget could be used for gear, and only the tech help you need would be an expense.

The hardest part is wading thru all the various brands and products, not to mention the suppliers who want to sell you what they have, not what you need. Since I'm not a sales guy, I'll give you my personal advice: talk to at least three different contractor/suppliers, and make sure they understand your needs and goals. Have drawings and/or pictures that they can look at, as well as a list of what you currently use.
There are several of us (companies) in Houston that work in this market, and small budgets should not be an issue if your needs are not out of line.
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Duane Massey
Core Systems, Inc
Houston, Texas, USA

Mike Bentz

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2006, 12:17:49 pm »

Wow, you can get a killer youth system for $6000

Is this the budget just for the PA, or will it include other things like stands and instruments?

You can get some good bang for the buck with carvin (and they'll even help you through your purchase too if you call them)
http://www.carvin.com
Probably not the best sound available out there, but very durable and certainly not bad sounding.

You might also try to find a local pro audio store and then have them help you build your system...they won't have the best advice out there, but it sounds like you know what you want. The best part is you will establish a relationship and get great deals and service down the road (heck, you're bound to get a lot knocked off with such a huge purchase).

Also, be sure to keep longterm goals in mind...purchase something that works for now, but will be useable in the future as the system slowly evolves. Having forsight now will save you tons of money and hassle in the future.
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A.B. Dada

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Re: Redoing sound in youth building. Need advice.
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2006, 12:50:20 pm »

Is your church "related" to any other larger churches in your area?  One way that you might be able to gather some additional equipment is offering the youth the option to help another bigger church with a project in exchage for some of their equipment that they have grown beyond.  Not income swaps, just a nice sharing of youth labor for older equipment.  Let the youths earn their rockin room Smile

My small church has boards laying around doing nothing that I hope to use for our youth service room / video cafe.  We'll still needing thousands more of equipment, but God has provided amazing things when we've shown that we're committed to His plan.  Take "advantage" of the energy that the youth has and help them show their physical commitment as well as their spiritual commitment and you might be surprised what pops up in the future.

That being said, has anyone considered starting a thread for churches to post equipment that they don't need anymore?  Not a B/S/T thread, just a "first person to show need gets it" sort of deal.  I'm going to go through all our "old junk" and see if we need it and if it might be another church's treasure.
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 A.B. Dada, A/V Tech
 New Song Ministries, Zion, IL
 churchsound.unanimocracy.com
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