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Author Topic: DMM suggestions?  (Read 18587 times)

Matt Errend

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 04:37:22 PM »

Molded into the back of the meter above
Conforms to
IEE 61010-1
IEC 61010-2-032
600V CAT.3
CE

Unfortunately, it's easy for Chinese OEMs to burn in the certification markings into their DMMs, but never actually have them certified. There are numerous videos online of DMMs with CAT/UL/CE/IEC ratings failing to meet their ratings. Dave Jones of EEVblog has a bunch of great multimeter review videos, and has some excellent explanations as to why some meters are worth it, and why some aren't. For example, this "CAT IV" rated meter has $.01 glass fuses on it's inputs, and would never hold up to certification. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Tkm21dI1g

If you're playing with low voltage electronics, buy whatever, maybe it will work well, maybe it wont. But if you're probing on and around 200V+ circuits, buy something worth owning and learn how to use it, safely.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 07:38:11 PM by Matt Errend »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 08:43:45 PM »

Unfortunately, it's easy for Chinese OEMs to burn in the certification markings into their DMMs, but never actually have them certified. There are numerous videos online of DMMs with CAT/UL/CE/IEC ratings failing to meet their ratings. Dave Jones of EEVblog has a bunch of great multimeter review videos, and has some excellent explanations as to why some meters are worth it, and why some aren't. For example, this "CAT IV" rated meter has $.01 glass fuses on it's inputs, and would never hold up to certification. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2Tkm21dI1g

If you're playing with low voltage electronics, buy whatever, maybe it will work well, maybe it wont. But if you're probing on and around 200V+ circuits, buy something worth owning and learn how to use it, safely.

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 09:05:57 PM »

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

So the real question is "Do you trust the manufacturer (and that assumes you know who manufactures it)?  That is where using a name brand that has built it's business on providing quality tools does in fact pay off.
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Steve Swaffer

Chris Hindle

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 08:23:26 AM »

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.
Tim, that'll mean a lot to my widow, as she chases down some Chinese supplier for an explanation on how I got zapped.
Just get a Fluke.
End of discussion.
Chris.
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2017, 02:07:15 PM »

Steve, Chris, I'm pointing out that all we have is the manufacturer's *statement*.  That Fluke or Amprobe or Triplette or HP.... have track records of meeting their declarations and specs is a good thing and not one I'm dismissing.

I'm only saying that absent personal experience or anecdotal evidence of failure of a specific product, we *really* don't know, do we?

And no, I don't own cheap knock-off meters... 8) 
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Matt Errend

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #35 on: December 14, 2017, 04:23:04 PM »

I do not doubt there are fraudulently labeled products but there is no way of knowing, 100%, that any given product in our hands has been engineered, tested and certified to a particular standard - all we have is the manufacturer's declaration of conformity.

There are import rules designed to keep products that have fraudulent certifications off of the domestic market, but unfortunately customs has a hard time keeping up with all the junk hitting our shores. Consumers can do the legwork themselves and contact the issuing group to see if a particular model/ make of equipment has actually been tested and certified, or if product markings are just lies.

Buying a name brand with a trusted reputation is a good idea, but there are a number of good "value" meters available that shouldn't blow up in your hand if you accidentally put it to 220V while you had it set to measure resistance, but it's always a good idea to do some research before buying a piece of equipment you're going to trust your life to.

IMO if you're doing regular venue tie-ins, or dealing with portable generators in the 50kW+ range, buy yourself a good CAT III 600V or better meter from a trusted brand and keep it and especially the probes in good condition.

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Chris Hindle

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #36 on: December 14, 2017, 04:49:26 PM »

Steve, Chris, I'm pointing out that all we have is the manufacturer's *statement*.  That Fluke or Amprobe or Triplette or HP.... have track records of meeting their declarations and specs is a good thing and not one I'm dismissing.

I'm only saying that absent personal experience or anecdotal evidence of failure of a specific product, we *really* don't know, do we?

And no, I don't own cheap knock-off meters... 8)
All I was getting at was when your life can so easily be put in danger, what use is that "pretty good for 30 bucks" meter, when you can pony up some more for a meter that is trusted daily by so many working electricians.
Bunch of years ago, someone gave me a bargain basement DMM. Back at the shop, I put it through the Chop Saw, and tossed it. One of the Shop Lackies said he would have been happy to take it. I told him "I would never trust my life to it. Why would I want to give it to you?" I told him I'd go halvsies when he wanted a Fluke. Couple of months later, he got a REAL meter.
Chris.
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Tim McCulloch

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2017, 05:55:50 PM »

All I was getting at was when your life can so easily be put in danger, what use is that "pretty good for 30 bucks" meter, when you can pony up some more for a meter that is trusted daily by so many working electricians.
Bunch of years ago, someone gave me a bargain basement DMM. Back at the shop, I put it through the Chop Saw, and tossed it. One of the Shop Lackies said he would have been happy to take it. I told him "I would never trust my life to it. Why would I want to give it to you?" I told him I'd go halvsies when he wanted a Fluke. Couple of months later, he got a REAL meter.
Chris.

Steve, Chris, I'm pointing out that all we have is the manufacturer's *statement*.  That Fluke or Amprobe or Triplette or HP.... have track records of meeting their declarations and specs is a good thing and not one I'm dismissing.


And no, I don't own cheap knock-off meters... 8) 
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

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Re: DMM suggestions?
« Reply #37 on: December 14, 2017, 05:55:50 PM »


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