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Author Topic: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer  (Read 1286 times)

Chris Phillips

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Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« on: October 27, 2021, 09:21:08 AM »

Good morning. We have a high school auditorium with the current configuration:

A Yamaha MG16XU Mixer is located in FOH Control Room.
4 Microphone cables terminated with 2 XLR  wall input plates on both sides of stage with cable runs to FOH Mixer inputs
Amplifiers and processing systems are located in a closet side stage
Cable runs from output jacks of the FOH mixer to the amplifiers/processing equipment located side stage in closet

We are installing a Shure SCM810 automatic mixer in a small rack in the FOH control room next to the current Yamaha MG16XU main mixer.

After installing the automatic mixer, we are placing the main Yamaha mixer in an SKB case, locked.(Still next to the automatic mixer rack)

We would like to have the main Yamaha mixer turned off and not in the signal chain when the automatic mixer is what is being used. (Most circumstances)
When the main mixer is needed, we would like to bypass the automatic mixer and someone can live mix using the main Yamaha mixer.
I am thinking we would need a switch that would toggle between auto and manual depending on the situation.
May someone help me to verify this would work and what I would need to do for the specifics of installing this. I have been on the RDL website looking to see if one of their stick on devices would work. I appreciate your assistance.
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Steve-White

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2021, 10:26:33 AM »

Without knowing how many outputs the system uses.

Pretty much any system controller will switch between inputs - any system controller that has input to output matrix routing capability.

Depending upon your budget, future system growth and overall planning will influence which solution is best.

A used dbx Driverack VENU360 would do the job at the lower end of solutions.  Throw money at it from there and the sky is the limit.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2021, 03:05:58 PM »

Good morning. We have a high school auditorium with the current configuration:

A Yamaha MG16XU Mixer is located in FOH Control Room.
4 Microphone cables terminated with 2 XLR  wall input plates on both sides of stage with cable runs to FOH Mixer inputs
Amplifiers and processing systems are located in a closet side stage
Cable runs from output jacks of the FOH mixer to the amplifiers/processing equipment located side stage in closet

We are installing a Shure SCM810 automatic mixer in a small rack in the FOH control room next to the current Yamaha MG16XU main mixer.

After installing the automatic mixer, we are placing the main Yamaha mixer in an SKB case, locked.(Still next to the automatic mixer rack)

We would like to have the main Yamaha mixer turned off and not in the signal chain when the automatic mixer is what is being used. (Most circumstances)
When the main mixer is needed, we would like to bypass the automatic mixer and someone can live mix using the main Yamaha mixer.
I am thinking we would need a switch that would toggle between auto and manual depending on the situation.
May someone help me to verify this would work and what I would need to do for the specifics of installing this. I have been on the RDL website looking to see if one of their stick on devices would work. I appreciate your assistance.

What you're describing is the exact type of application where you need a DSP.  Not just a speaker processor type DSP, but a full system processor (QSys, Xilica, Tesira, Symetrix, etc).  When the system is turned on, from the touch screen you select manual mix or auto mix.  For manual mix - typically there'll be a wireless or wired touch screen, or both.  A physical mixer isn't needed or desired unless you specifically need compression, EQ, FX, etc - IE, an experienced tech and a full band.  The touch screen GUI is programmed for whatever you need - typically faders and mutes for the various sources when manually mixed.

A wireless touch screen, typically an iPad, can be used while walking the room or sitting outside the tech room - which is usually at a bad spot anyway.  It can also be used to sequence the system, turn the projector/screen on/off, operate the background music (Sonos, Bluesound, etc), and recall lighting presets. 
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2021, 05:36:02 PM »

If buying new for what you pay for a Shure SCM810 for not so much more
you can get a Allen Heath QU16 that will do what the SCM810 does and much more
and doing it better all the while.

You could have an auto mix scene for daily use and a full mix mode scene for special events.
For daily use the operators could use the Q Control app to only get to and adjust the minimum needed controls.

Chris Phillips

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2021, 07:29:34 AM »

If buying new for what you pay for a Shure SCM810 for not so much more
you can get a Allen Heath QU16 that will do what the SCM810 does and much more
and doing it better all the while.

You could have an auto mix scene for daily use and a full mix mode scene for special events.
For daily use the operators could use the Q Control app to only get to and adjust the minimum needed controls.
I think you had suggested that on another thread, and I looked it up right away. It is fantastic. Unfortunately, I can only use what we have right now.  I found this: https://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=150
Do you think this would work using a switch?
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Scott Hofmann

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2021, 04:56:30 PM »

I think you had suggested that on another thread, and I looked it up right away. It is fantastic. Unfortunately, I can only use what we have right now.  I found this: https://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=150
Do you think this would work using a switch?
The question remains.. how many inputs and how many outputs do you need to switch?
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Scott Hofmann

Steve-White

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2021, 06:13:33 PM »

The question remains.. how many inputs and how many outputs do you need to switch?

Exactly.

What are the relationships of inputs to outputs.  One to many, many to many, many to one?  Specifically, what are the requirements?  Mono to mono?  L&R to L&R?  Any aux feeds, monitors, press, etc?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 06:41:15 PM by Steve-White »
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2021, 06:36:57 PM »

I think you had suggested that on another thread, and I looked it up right away. It is fantastic. Unfortunately, I can only use what we have right now.  I found this: https://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=150
Do you think this would work using a switch?

The piece you link to would work, you would need a switch to trigger the audio switch over.

Something like this would work automatically.
https://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=278#!prettyPhoto

The audio input would be from the auto mixer and also jumper the normally open contacts.
The audio out from the Yamaha mixer would connect to the normally closed contact.
The common arm connection would go the system inputs.

When the relay would sense audio from the auto mixer it would switch to that input.
Anytime you wanted to use the Yamaha mixer just turn off the auto mixer.

Or......just get a four pole double throw toggle switch.

Does your system have any form of a DSP?

Are the inputs to the auto mixer also feeding the Yamaha mixer?

As asked how many lines need to be switched?

What I just talked about would just be for switching between two mono balanced sources.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 06:39:17 PM by Mike Caldwell »
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2021, 08:41:00 AM »

A Yamaha MG16XU Mixer is located in FOH Control Room.
We would like to have the main Yamaha mixer turned off and not in the signal chain when the automatic mixer is what is being used. (Most circumstances)...
...When the main mixer is needed, we would like to bypass the automatic mixer and someone can live mix using the main Yamaha mixer.
Have you considered running the Yamaha mixer's main outputs into the SCM810's Aux input?

You could also use the logic function of the mixer to Override the automixing on desired channels if you need to sum the main outputs.
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Jordan Wolf
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Re: Automatic Mixer/Manual Mixer
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2021, 08:41:00 AM »


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