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Author Topic: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage  (Read 6242 times)

Curt Sorensen

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FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« on: November 16, 2017, 03:59:29 pm »

Iím trying to gather options to replace [2] BTR-800 systems typically used separately on remotes and in studio. Note this use is for broadcast, I hope thatís an acceptable topic.
Consideration is being given to Radio Active Designs UV-1G and FreeSpeak II-5. Any other options Iím missing? The lower cost of the FreeSpeak II system has itís appeal, along with some interesting features. But the technology is different enough from conventional UHF RF practice, so Iím asking here for any insights yíall have to offer.

The ability of FreeSpeak to have/need multiple antennas on CAT5 offers multiple zones without fear of multi-path if coverage overlaps, correct?

I realize the antenna-to-base CAT5 isnít carrying IP-based information on a network, but is it delivering RF, or data, or something else entirely?

From what Iíve read so far, the length of a cable isnít at all the same issue as with UHF systems. If I can trust a venueís CAT5 dry-line infrastructure, why would I put a base station anywhere but in our truck in the loading dock?

If I had a production where I needed more belt-packs [weíre usually running four or fewer], I think I only need to add antennas, as each antenna maxes out with five packs. I wouldnít need to daisy chain two base stations the way I would with BTR-800s.

Iíve searched PSW, scanned manuals and white papers, and itís a lot to digest. Iím not unwilling to try, but again would appreciate any experiences with the FreeSpeak systems to aid in my evaluations.

Thanks a lot,

Curt
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Mac Kerr

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 04:40:44 pm »

Iím trying to gather options to replace [2] BTR-800 systems typically used separately on remotes and in studio. Note this use is for broadcast, I hope thatís an acceptable topic.
Consideration is being given to Radio Active Designs UV-1G and FreeSpeak II-5. Any other options Iím missing? The lower cost of the FreeSpeak II system has itís appeal, along with some interesting features. But the technology is different enough from conventional UHF RF practice, so Iím asking here for any insights yíall have to offer.
Two other options would be Bolero from Riedel and Romeo from RTS. Both are available as a card that goes in your intercom matrix frame. If you have either a Riedel Artist or RTS Adam frame one or the other of these would be another choice. Freespeak is also available as a card for Clear Com Eclipse matrix frames.
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The ability of FreeSpeak to have/need multiple antennas on CAT5 offers multiple zones without fear of multi-path if coverage overlaps, correct?
Yes, however the rule of thumb is to count the maximum per antenna as 4 or packs may not be able to roam from one antenna to the next.
Quote
I realize the antenna-to-base CAT5 isnít carrying IP-based information on a network, but is it delivering RF, or data, or something else entirely?

From what Iíve read so far, the length of a cable isnít at all the same issue as with UHF systems. If I can trust a venueís CAT5 dry-line infrastructure, why would I put a base station anywhere but in our truck in the loading dock?
 
The CAT5 is carrying audio and data, but not in a regular network data format, so no switches can be used, and power needs to make it to the antenna (transceiver) or you need to run power to the antenna. From a truck you would probably run from the base to a FreeSpeak antenna splitter that could power and connect 5 antennas in the venue.
Quote
If I had a production where I needed more belt-packs [weíre usually running four or fewer], I think I only need to add antennas, as each antenna maxes out with five packs. I wouldnít need to daisy chain two base stations the way I would with BTR-800s.
Correct, although as I said before you may need to use 4 or fewer packs as your guide.

The RAD system uses antenna technology you may be more familiar with, and has very good range with the VHF return from the packs. It is also simpler for users to adapt to as it basically duplicates the functionality of a BTR, while allowing 6 packs per base, and simple linking of multiple base stations via a jumper.

Mac
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 04:42:56 pm by Mac Kerr »
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Pete Erskine

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 04:53:40 pm »

From what Iíve read so far, the length of a cable isnít at all the same issue as with UHF systems. If I can trust a venueís CAT5 dry-line infrastructure, why would I put a base station anywhere but in our truck in the loading dock?
Same 100M limitation on cat5 as data.  New splitter can be remoted over fiber. each antenna home run to the splitter.
Quote

If I had a production where I needed more belt-packs [weíre usually running four or fewer], I think I only need to add antennas, as each antenna maxes out with five packs. I wouldnít need to daisy chain two base stations the way I would with BTR-800s.the FreeSpeak systems to aid in my evaluations.

max 10 antennas per stand alone base

max 1.9 beltpacks in the usa in the same RF space is 25 on one stand alone base.
Max 2.4 BP the same.  You can use both system together with 2 bases. 

This is the way we do 50 BP on the Macy's parade and on the NBC Tree lighting.

If you use a Clearcom Helixnet matrix you can have 40 2.4 BP in one system and up to 80 antennas.

You cannot Link bases like BTR just send the same comm channel to both.

Base has 4 4-wires and 4 2-wires which can be all used at the same time.  I use a model 47 to convert 4 to match the other 4 so I have 8.


See my web page for helixnet and Freespeak http://www.bestaudio.com/helixnet/
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 04:55:57 pm by Pete Erskine »
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 09:26:54 pm »


If I had a production where I needed more belt-packs [weíre usually running four or fewer], I think I only need to add antennas, as each antenna maxes out with five packs. I wouldnít need to daisy chain two base stations the way I would with BTR-800s.
Actually, with BTR, and RAD, you can add as many belt packs as you want, with the caveat that the packs all need to be set to "Push-to-talk and Tx" so that none are transmitting constantly.
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~Ike Zimbel~
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Dan Currie

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 10:06:36 pm »

How is the latency with FreeSpeak II?  Is it caused be a 2wire or 4wire conversion like the Tempest?  Or is it always there even as a standalone wireless comm without any external connections? 
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Curt Sorensen

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 10:30:48 pm »

Hi,
So thanks, all, for your responses. You're remarkably helpful, punctual, and free. Where else can I get all three?

Is there any info about what's going on between the antenna(s) and the base? I mean is it some standard of some kind, or totally proprietary? I found some descriptions of the wireless transmission portion, is that simply passed along the CAT5 cable, or is there some processing, conversion, or further encoding? I'm only trying to get enough background to understand how the system works [or doesn't] for our purposes.

I'm also curious if there would be any reason to ever use two base stations. Know that I don't have the ability to use cards in a matrix system as we have RTS Cronus frames. Also, if I were ever faced with anywhere near 50 packs I'd be hiring one of you. It's totally unlikely I'd need more than four.

We do work in a venue that just acquired FreeSpeak. Does that present coordination issues, or the need for two units to interact in any way?

I don't mean to take advantage of your time, but I have yet to find some of these answers in my research to date.

Much thanks again,
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:35:07 pm by Curt Sorensen »
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Curt Sorensen
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Pete Erskine

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 10:38:07 pm »

How is the latency with FreeSpeak II?  Is it caused be a 2wire or 4wire conversion like the Tempest?  Or is it always there even as a standalone wireless comm without any external connections?

If the 2wire is not nulled there will be an echo-if it is nulled no echo.

If you are standing next to another user and they are talking on your channel you will hear an echo effect while listening to live vs your comm headset.  In any case the latency is less than Tempest.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 10:43:34 pm »

Hi,
So thanks, all, for your responses. You're remarkably helpful, punctual, and free. Where else can I get all three?

Is there any info about what's going on between the antenna(s) and the base? I mean is it some standard of some kind, or totally proprietary? I found some descriptions of the wireless transmission portion, is that simply passed along the CAT5 cable, or is there some processing, conversion, or further encoding? I'm only trying to get enough background to understand how the system works [or doesn't] for our purposes.

I'm also curious if there would be any reason to ever use two base stations. Know that I don't have the ability to use cards in a matrix system as we have RTS Cronus frames. Also, if I were ever faced with anywhere near 50 packs I'd be hiring one of you. It's totally unlikely I'd need more than four.

We do work in a venue that just acquired FreeSpeak. Does that present coordination issues, or the need for two units to interact in any way?

I don't mean to take advantage of your time, but I have yet to find some of these answers in my research to date.

Much thanks again,

The connection to the antenna is a dual data stream-audio on an ethernet connection and on an unused pair 422 sync pulse.  The antenna cannot use regular switches.  However you can build your own fiber adapter with media converters.  see the same web page I sent you to before for the details.

http://www.bestaudio.com/helixnet/

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Ike Zimbel

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2017, 02:24:32 pm »




We do work in a venue that just acquired FreeSpeak. Does that present coordination issues, or the need for two units to interact in any way?

This is a really good question. What does happen when you bring another FS-II system into a scenario where there's one already in place? Pete?
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~Ike Zimbel~
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Radio Active Designs
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Mac Kerr

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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2017, 03:15:57 pm »

This is a really good question. What does happen when you bring another FS-II system into a scenario where there's one already in place? Pete?

I'm waiting to heat this answer as well. I have a show next week where we are bringing FSII with 16 packs, and the video truck is bringing FSII with 5 packs. Ours (OSA's) will be 1.9GHz, haven't been able to get that info from the truck.

Mac
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Re: FreeSpeak II Antenna Usage
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