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Author Topic: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage  (Read 4503 times)

Mike Karseboom

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Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« on: November 09, 2017, 10:31:43 am »

I have a situation where I am looking for "close" wireless connectivity in a 360 degree pattern and a "far" connectivity (50-200 feet or so) in one general direction (down the street).


I have an Audio Technica 3000 series system that has diversity antennae.  Unfortunately the receiver antennae can only be mounted about 5' high.  When throngs of people gather around the receiver the close mics still work well but I get dropouts when an announcer walks down the street more than 50 feet. 


I am wondering if I can connect a high mounted paddle antenna to just ONE of the antenna inputs (eg Channel "A") and leave the 1/4 wave antenna connected to the other channel ("B") and get good coverage both near (20 feet for 360 degrees)  and far (50+ feet in just one general direction)?


I realize I may be defeating part of the idea of the diversity system but am hoping that the close connections will just naturally select channel "B" (1/4 antenna) and the far connections will roll over to channel "A" (paddle antenna pointed that way). 
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Rob Spence

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2017, 10:46:11 am »

I have a situation where I am looking for "close" wireless connectivity in a 360 degree pattern and a "far" connectivity (50-200 feet or so) in one general direction (down the street).


I have an Audio Technica 3000 series system that has diversity antennae.  Unfortunately the receiver antennae can only be mounted about 5' high.  When throngs of people gather around the receiver the close mics still work well but I get dropouts when an announcer walks down the street more than 50 feet. 


I am wondering if I can connect a high mounted paddle antenna to just ONE of the antenna inputs (eg Channel "A") and leave the 1/4 wave antenna connected to the other channel ("B") and get good coverage both near (20 feet for 360 degrees)  and far (50+ feet in just one general direction)?


I realize I may be defeating part of the idea of the diversity system but am hoping that the close connections will just naturally select channel "B" (1/4 antenna) and the far connections will roll over to channel "A" (paddle antenna pointed that way).

Sure that will work though the 1/4 wave on the receiver will be affected by the people nearby.

Better would be a half wave vertical on a mic stand up above head height with a short(ish) cable to one input and the paddle on the other.

You might be able to rig mounts for both on to a speaker stand with the paddle up high and the half wave on a side arm above head height.

The quarter wave requires a ground plane (the receiver) to work while a half wave does not.

Most wireless vendors have both available.



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Mike Karseboom

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2017, 11:12:43 am »

Thanks for the reply.  I simplified the example slightly as I do have 4 units in a rack with an antenna distribution amplifier feeding them.  There are currently two 1/2 wave antennae front mounted at the top of the rack that feed the distribution amplifier. 


I was going to disconnect one of the 1/2 wave antenna and connect that channel to the paddle.  I am actually not using any of the 1/4 wave antennae that came with the receivers.
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Keith Broughton

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2017, 11:54:08 am »

I have a situation where I am looking for "close" wireless connectivity in a 360 degree pattern and a "far" connectivity (50-200 feet or so) in one general direction (down the street).




I am wondering if I can connect a high mounted paddle antenna to just ONE of the antenna inputs (eg Channel "A")



Why not just connect 2 "paddle" antennas (instead of just one) above the crowd height ?
It would work for near and far.
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Mike Karseboom

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2017, 01:02:41 pm »

Why not just connect 2 "paddle" antennas (instead of just one) above the crowd height ?
It would work for near and far.


The physical arrangement is such that I need occasional long range coverage when the MC wanders  down the street to North but continuous close coverage for Choir mics 20' directly opposite to the South.  The MC also spends most of the time  right around the receiver rack area.


I figured the paddle antennae were directional and if they are pointed down the street away from the choir I would get worse coverage for the choir.  Is that not the case?    There is no convenient place I could put 2 paddle antennae that would point to the entire coverage area at once.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2017, 01:40:48 pm »

I figured the paddle antennae were directional and if they are pointed down the street away from the choir I would get worse coverage for the choir.  Is that not the case?    There is no convenient place I could put 2 paddle antennae that would point to the entire coverage area at once.

The paddle antenna has a cardioid coverage pattern. There is significant PU in all directions except directly behind it. Your best solution should involve a couple of tall tripod speaker stands to get both antennas up high, but not co-located. I would try to get the antennas up at least 7'-8'.

Mac
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2017, 05:08:08 pm »


I figured the paddle antennae were directional and if they are pointed down the street away from the choir I would get worse coverage for the choir.  Is that not the case?    There is no convenient place I could put 2 paddle antennae that would point to the entire coverage area at once.
You can actually have the best of both worlds by using both on "A" and "B". This can be done with a simple BNC "T" connector or by using the passive combiners that many suppliers (like the Shure UA221. I use the PWS and Mini Circuits products) sell.
As long as the antenna patterns and coverage area don't overlap too much, you'll be fine.
I have used multiple Rx antennas on every job I've done in the past 12 months. On really large stages, you pretty much have to.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 06:21:17 pm »

The RFVenue diversity fin might be a good fit for this; maybe two of them and a couple of passive splitter/combiner bits to retain omni/LPDA diversity?
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John Sulek

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 08:08:17 pm »

You can actually have the best of both worlds by using both on "A" and "B". This can be done with a simple BNC "T" connector or by using the passive combiners that many suppliers (like the Shure UA221. I use the PWS and Mini Circuits products) sell.
As long as the antenna patterns and coverage area don't overlap too much, you'll be fine.
I have used multiple Rx antennas on every job I've done in the past 12 months. On really large stages, you pretty much have to.

This! Very useful in arenas to get rx coverage in the voms.
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Mike Karseboom

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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 11:26:39 pm »

This! Very useful in arenas to get rx coverage in the voms.


So a simple BNC "T" connector will work just as well as a much more expensive  passive power divider/combiner?  I thought there were some sort of internal reflection problems with a simple "T".


All of the antennae are passive so I don't need DC power sent through the cables.



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--Mike
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Re: Mixing Antenna Types for near / far coverage
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2017, 11:26:39 pm »


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