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Author Topic: Acoustic Reflections in large church  (Read 2000 times)

Tony Mamoh

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Acoustic Reflections in large church
« on: November 06, 2017, 02:18:08 PM »

I recently went to a classic Catholic church for a seminar (all speech by only the minister, no choir, no music). The acoustics was terrible. Nobody heard a word. It had nothing to do with the mics or speakers. They even swapped at some point with the popular portable Fender speaker that you roll like a small suitcase and its mic.


The Church was all marble/shiny tiled floors . High concrete walls. I took one look at the speakers and they were about  1 foot wide by 2.5 feet long (column speakers....looks like Ahuja brand...but cant recollect now) . The column speakers were installed on the walls and columns in the Church. The pews are all wooden so absolutely nothing to absorb the sound waves from the speakers. One key thing I noticed was that the speakers were all angled down facing the floor. I think the installer intended for the sound to hit the audience and angled them.

What is the short term solution to reduce the acoustic reflections that made the programme inaudible? I think keeping the speakers vertical( i.e. not angled to the floor ) would reduce but not eliminate the reflections. Acoustic treatment is great but the traditionalists in that church would want the building to remain in the traditional classical medieval way without heavy carpeting and acoustic ceilings on the floor etc.

I would like to know how this problem can be reduced since the ultimate solution is to 'retrofit' which is not practicable.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Acoustic Reflections in large church
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2017, 02:20:47 PM »

The program material was very audible.  What is was not, was *intelligible*.

Part of the King James revision was to reduce the number of different words and to use words that were more easily understood in the context of Gothic architecture...

It also helped when the speaking person spoke more slowly and with good diction/enunciation.

That the installed system was pointed downward to the audience was done to create less excitation of the reflective elements.  The success of such aiming depends on having absorptive/diffusive objects (mostly people) within the coverage.  Okay so long as the audience area is full, not so okay when attendance is low.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 02:25:31 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Acoustic Reflections in large church
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2017, 08:02:02 PM »

Without knowing the height of the speakers, the depth of the audience, the down angle of the speakers, the particular speakers, it is hard to say if it is correct or not.

Let's assume the angle of the speaker is "correct".  The reason for angling them down is to drive the sound into the audience, so it gets diffused.

It is best to treat the FIRST reflection in a room like this.  The pews/congregation would generally be considered a "decent" treatment.

Consider if you aimed them straight forward.

Now you will get a stronger reflection off of the rear wall.  You will also get more reflections of off the side walls and ceiling.

That could make matters worse.

There may (or may not) be some things you can do, but without details (photos are VERY helpful), it is hard to say.  And would only be guesses based on unknown data.
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Paul G. OBrien

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Re: Acoustic Reflections in large church
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2017, 08:42:39 PM »

I recently went to a classic Catholic church for a seminar (all speech by only the minister, no choir, no music). The acoustics was terrible.
Sounds like the church I grew up attending. Actually the acoustics are what many musicians would call fantastic, great for choirs and pipe organs but yeah... a terrible place to hold a seminar.

What is the short term solution to reduce the acoustic reflections that made the program inaudible?
Fill the space with bodies, then instruct the minister to speak slowly and deliberately carefully enunciating every syllable.. with frequent pauses to allow the reverb to decay sufficiently before beginning the next phrase. Look up gregorian chants, this is what these buildings were built for.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 08:46:41 PM by Paul G. OBrien »
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Acoustic Reflections in large church
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2017, 11:23:40 PM »

Our church auditorium was built during the Civil War-built before sound systems were a thing.  Auditorium comfortably seats 350 people-everyone thinks you have to have sound re-enforcement to speak to a crowd that size.  IF the crowd is attentive and IF the speaker (two legged speaker) projects, it is very easy to hear in this room.  The FOH mix position is far from ideal-back corner balcony-funny thing is I can ALWAYS hear a speaker when the pick up a mic looking for the switch (unnecessary because our mics are always on) asking "is this on".  During rehearsals we regularly have conversations from front of room to the back in a slightly louder than normal conversational manner.

I don't know the size of the auditorium in the OP, but if trying a Fender Passport is any indication of size, my guess is the best course of action would be to turn off the electronics and learn to use the room acoustics to your advantage.
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Steve Swaffer

Mike Caldwell

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Re: Acoustic Reflections in large church
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 12:13:19 AM »

Sounds like the church I grew up attending. Actually the acoustics are what many musicians would call fantastic, great for choirs and pipe organs but yeah... a terrible place to hold a seminar.
 

.....a terrible place to hold a seminar..... and to put a full on band in with drums, guitar amps and stage monitors.


As for the speaker brand did it start with the letter A, any other exterior details that stood out, in the big picture the brand of speaker alone can not be looked at as the only reason bad sound in that kind of room.

In general terms in a room like that multiple speakers pointed to where the people are, physically somewhat close the areas that they are covering and all operating at a lower volume level since they are closer to the people can be a good thing if done well.

If possible post up some pictures.

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Re: Acoustic Reflections in large church
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2017, 12:13:19 AM »


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