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Author Topic: New Allen & Heath SQ Series  (Read 121325 times)

Nathan Riddle

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #270 on: February 22, 2018, 07:58:36 am »

I think the primary reason for having a digital trim is for when the source is digital. Since there is no preamp to adjust with a digital input the trim is the way you set the level. With an analog input, it gives you the option to trim the channel level while keeping the preamp gain optimized for the best level to the AD convertor.

I don't think any other place is any better to have the trim. Where ever it ends up there are other ways to accomplish what it might do.

Mac

You're right, that makes complete sense.

I was used to QU where those were combined into the single control, the trim functionality wasn't broken up. I still don't see why it should be broken up.

What I don't get is why the need to decrease level, it is either at 0dBFS or it isn't. I can see adding gain though.

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What I've always thought digital trim was to keep the input preamp 'hot' for sends, direct outs, & other prefader outputs and then pad down the level to the fader (so the fader is closer to zero) for finer control.

https://www.prosoundweb.com/channels/church/church_sound_2-5_ways_to_set_up_input_gain1/
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #271 on: February 22, 2018, 08:00:55 am »

The digital trim is used for doing monitor splits; so the gain on the monitor desk can be adjusted without effecting the gain of the Mic pre's on the FOH console. (or visa versa as per A&H's video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD3L0SK0FTA

While that's great, I still don't see why it's necessary. It is either peaking or it isn't. If it isn't peaking it isn't a problem (for the sound, workflow might be compromised I guess?)

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Video is good, didn't realize GLD was so mature in those capabilities.

-SQ needs to have the same feature: lock board to digital trim OR analogue trim.

-SQ also needs that speed patching thing that GLD has.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 12:16:24 pm by Nathan Riddle »
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Art Nadelman

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #272 on: February 22, 2018, 09:00:55 am »

- major annoyance that the board pops during turn-on/off :(


This should never, ever happen because your speakers should be off whenever you turn your mixer on or off.  Speakers should be the first device off and the last device on.  Always!
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Peter Morris

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #273 on: February 22, 2018, 09:02:00 am »

While that's great, I still don't see why it's necessary. It is either peaking or it isn't. If it isn't peaking it isn't a problem (for the sound, workflow might be compromised I guess?)

---

Video is good, didn't realize GLD was so mature in those capabilities. SQ needs to have the same feature: lock board to digital trim OR analogue trim.

Your gain structure needs to be set up so that the analogy signals is large enough with respect to the input of AD converter to produce a digital signal with a reasonable amount of bits. This ensures a good signal to noise ratio and audio quality.

In the analogue world this was done with the gain pot.  Itís more or less the same in Mic preís of a digital console but itís done in small analogue steps Ė think in terms of a computer controlled switched resistor bank not a variable pot.

When you are mixing you need to have reasonable physical control over things, you need the fader to sit around the zero point so if you need to push the level a little for a solo you have a sensible amount of fader travel.
 
When you are sharing the same mic- preís in a FOH / FB application what nice for the FOH engineer may not suit the FB engineer Ė digital trim gives the engineer the ability to set the gain structure to suit their mix better.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #274 on: February 22, 2018, 09:25:48 am »

This should never, ever happen because your speakers should be off whenever you turn your mixer on or off.  Speakers should be the first device off and the last device on.  Always!

That's kinda like saying turn off the fuel valve so the engine uses up the gas in the line. We invented injectors and engines that tolerate that so now we have autostart/stop that saves fuel. Innovate/improve or die.

We have sufficiently cheap technology that makes popping in all the digital snakes that we operate nonexistent. DO THE SAME THING FOR LOCAL. I find it incredulous anyone would design a system that can damage other things when it isn't that hard to fix.

Also, that's for best case scenarios. We all know that we need to plan for the worse. What if FOH console goes down, but comes back before you've had time to mute/turn off the speakers?

It's just lazy design IMO. There's no real excuse.
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Your gain structure needs to be set up so that the analogy signals is large enough with respect to the input of AD converter to produce a digital signal with a reasonable amount of bits. This ensures a good signal to noise ratio and audio quality.


I'm not sure I agree with the mentality that more bits = better sound anymore. SNR & output send gain structure? Sure.

But if the analogue signal is sufficiently converted into digital (minimum voltage necessary to engage the 'bits'), the reconstructed analogue is always the same signal as input.

In the analogue world this was done with the gain pot.  It’s more or less the same in Mic pre’s of a digital console but it’s done in small analogue steps – think in terms of a computer controlled switched resistor bank not a variable pot.

When you are mixing you need to have reasonable physical control over things, you need the fader to sit around the zero point so if you need to push the level a little for a solo you have a sensible amount of fader travel.
 
When you are sharing the same mic- pre’s in a FOH / FB application what nice for the FOH engineer may not suit the FB engineer – digital trim gives the engineer the ability to set the gain structure to suit their mix better.

gain/preamp/headamp = analogue domain (digitally controlled or manually, still controls the analogue level into the rest of the circuit (digital or analogue). Yes, that's necessary and good. You need sufficient headroom above the input level to do EQ/Compression (boosts).

I agree the digital trim is a good addition for the application you suggest.

I don't see it as necessary, but I also haven't mixed monitors from anywhere other than FOH. And I still think it would be better if there was a 2nd one right after EQ/before fader to setup the 'channel' so it is in the 'zero point' range.

The 2nd one would allow the signal to come in 'hot' through all the DO, Sends, & processing.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #275 on: February 22, 2018, 03:44:52 pm »

Maybe this will be considered off-topic, but since I am considering the M32R, can anyone provide their subjective opinion on the difference in audio quality between the SQ and M32R? For full disclosure I have a Midas Venice32 that I really like but don't take out anymore, and have been using a Yamaha LS9-16 but find that to be a sub-optimal live music board and a bit 'sterile' sounding, though very reliable.

Cheers,
Tom

I have a Midas M32 and a loaner SQ6 sitting next to me right now. I was given it by a sound company that wanted me to run it thru its paces and figure out if it would be a good choice for a client. I donít like to talk bad about a piece of equipment when it is ease of use or user interface issues as has been mentioned in the last couple of pages in this thread. Some of that can be just in the capabilities of the user to understand and some of it can be in the regularity of the use. Some of the navigational issues can eventually (hopefully) be worked out in the firmware. But at this time I would not recommend the SQ6 for this client. I know there capabilities and their fussiness. I hope A&H will improve upon the way you get at things, but some of that is due to the fact that you are forced to use the touch screen with no alternative. I can go into detail of this if requested.

I donít feel that any overall sound difference is enough between the M32 and the SQ6 to have to put up with the navigational issues, at the moment. For some the SQ6 is an excellent choice.

There is a lot to like about the SQ6. The ability to define the fader layout on any layer is great. I really like that if you have a stereo input that it takes up only one fader. For vocals I like the reverb better on the SQ6 then on the M32. I tried going back and forth to see if I could make one of the reverbs sound more like the SQ6 and I got close but it isnít easy. And I might be able to get there with enough time.

Thatís my thoughts at the moment.
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #276 on: February 22, 2018, 03:59:04 pm »

I have a Midas M32 and a loaner SQ6 sitting next to me right now. I was given it by a sound company that wanted me to run it thru its paces and figure out if it would be a good choice for a client.

I donít like to talk bad about a piece of equipment when it is ease of use or user interface issues as has been mentioned in the last couple of pages in this thread. Some of that can be just in the capabilities of the user to understand and some of it can be in the regularity of the use.

Some of the navigational issues can eventually (hopefully) be worked out in the firmware. But at this time I would not recommend the SQ6 for this client. I know there capabilities and their fussiness.

I hope A&H will improve upon the way you get at things, but some of that is due to the fact that you are forced to use the touch screen with no alternative. I can go into detail of this if requested.

I donít feel that any overall sound difference is enough between the M32 and the SQ6 to have to put up with the navigational issues, at the moment. For some the SQ6 is an excellent choice.

There is a lot to like about the SQ6.
-The ability to define the fader layout on any layer is great.
-I really like that if you have a stereo input that it takes up only one fader.
-For vocals I like the reverb better on the SQ6 then on the M32. I tried going back and forth to see if I could make one of the reverbs sound more like the SQ6 and I got close but it isnít easy. And I might be able to get there with enough time.

Thatís my thoughts at the moment.

Do expand!

Disclaimer: I don't have a TON of experience on x32/m32.

I didn't like that the x32/m32 didn't have touch, but I do like the navigational experience. Though I wouldn't say I used the physical controls for much. I'm interested on being illuminated.

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I like your approach about not giving things a 'bad rap' based upon little use. Probably a wiser approach. I wanted to layout a 'raw' look at the board in a half cocked sort of way.

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I agree with the synopsis that the user interface is 'chunky.' I want the board to glide, but it just doesn't. :/ oh well. I care more about processing capabilities than interface...which is why I got SQ.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #277 on: February 22, 2018, 04:34:28 pm »

Do expand!

Disclaimer: I don't have a TON of experience on x32/m32.

I didn't like that the x32/m32 didn't have touch, but I do like the navigational experience. Though I wouldn't say I used the physical controls for much. I'm interested on being illuminated.

---

I like your approach about not giving things a 'bad rap' based upon little use. Probably a wiser approach. I wanted to layout a 'raw' look at the board in a half cocked sort of way.

---

I agree with the synopsis that the user interface is 'chunky.' I want the board to glide, but it just doesn't. :/ oh well. I care more about processing capabilities than interface...which is why I got SQ.
The below isn't directed to Nathan or Kevin specifically, but is a general thought. 

I have said this before, but I would suggest that the price tag should be thoroughly considered when evaluating the pros and cons of this (or any budget-class) board.  Most of the first 25 pages of this thread extol the features and capabilities, some of which were comparisons to boards costing 5-10X the price of the SQ.  Some of the user interface limitations may be related to imperfect design and might be fixable with software updates, but some of them are due to the price point of the board - i.e. only one band worth of EQ knobs rather than a full set like on the GLD.

I have also said before that it's never been easier to make good sound - there are reasonable budget-priced products from multiple vendors in every category - mics, mixers, speakers, cable, etc.  It's a good time to be in audio (unless you're trying to depreciate lots of old gear).
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #278 on: February 22, 2018, 05:04:13 pm »

Do expand!

Disclaimer: I don't have a TON of experience on x32/m32.

I didn't like that the x32/m32 didn't have touch, but I do like the navigational experience. Though I wouldn't say I used the physical controls for much. I'm interested on being illuminated.

---

I like your approach about not giving things a 'bad rap' based upon little use. Probably a wiser approach. I wanted to layout a 'raw' look at the board in a half cocked sort of way.

---

I agree with the synopsis that the user interface is 'chunky.' I want the board to glide, but it just doesn't. :/ oh well. I care more about processing capabilities than interface...which is why I got SQ.

I like touch screens but they donít always like me. I find I have to hit something more than once for it to take my input.

On the SQ6 if you want to adjust certain things, like anything but the threshold on the compressor, you have to get the compressor screen up and then you have to touch each place on the screen to select what you want to adjust. Then use the unlabeled rotary knob (to the bottom right of the screen) to make the adjustment. If you can do things 2 handed that helps.

On the M32 when on the Compressor screen the rotary knobs under the screen become your control knobs. I like the auto function on the compressor and the variable knee on the M32. 

The more you use any digital console the more comfortable you will get with the way it works. Or should I say the way you have to work on it to make it work. When using different digital consoles I find when I havenít been on one in a little while I find myself sitting there going, I know I can do this on this console now where on earth is that.

One touch screen story. I was using an outdoor venuesí Yamaha CL5 (that is put away every night) and the touch screen looked like someone had been drinking chunky coffee and sneezed on the screen with a mouth full. Obviously I had to clean the screen before using the mixer.

And this is just my feelings about the touch screen part of the interface.
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Peter Morris

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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #279 on: February 22, 2018, 05:23:31 pm »

I have a Midas M32 and a loaner SQ6 sitting next to me right now. I was given it by a sound company that wanted me to run it thru its paces and figure out if it would be a good choice for a client. I donít like to talk bad about a piece of equipment when it is ease of use or user interface issues as has been mentioned in the last couple of pages in this thread. Some of that can be just in the capabilities of the user to understand and some of it can be in the regularity of the use. Some of the navigational issues can eventually (hopefully) be worked out in the firmware. But at this time I would not recommend the SQ6 for this client. I know there capabilities and their fussiness. I hope A&H will improve upon the way you get at things, but some of that is due to the fact that you are forced to use the touch screen with no alternative. I can go into detail of this if requested.

I donít feel that any overall sound difference is enough between the M32 and the SQ6 to have to put up with the navigational issues, at the moment. For some the SQ6 is an excellent choice.

There is a lot to like about the SQ6. The ability to define the fader layout on any layer is great. I really like that if you have a stereo input that it takes up only one fader. For vocals I like the reverb better on the SQ6 then on the M32. I tried going back and forth to see if I could make one of the reverbs sound more like the SQ6 and I got close but it isnít easy. And I might be able to get there with enough time.

Thatís my thoughts at the moment.

I'm the opposite, I can fly around the SQ but find the X32 a little slow in comparison.  I love the new - CH to All Mix button.
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Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
¬ę Reply #279 on: February 22, 2018, 05:23:31 pm ¬Ľ


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