ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 42   Go Down

Author Topic: New Allen & Heath SQ Series  (Read 121599 times)

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #130 on: November 04, 2017, 05:28:32 pm »

The old card format can not do 96 khz so they had to design new cards


The system should be able to support newer and legacy board types. Sample rate should make no difference.
Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Mark Amber

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #131 on: November 04, 2017, 05:45:11 pm »

The system should be able to support newer and legacy board types. Sample rate should make no difference.
Are you saying this authoritatively or presumptively? Afaik it uses a new form factor card which is essentially a small version of the dlive cards (at 96k)

SRC is not cheap at all. These mixers are built down to a price. Don't think for a second they aren't.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3512
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #132 on: November 04, 2017, 05:50:34 pm »

The old card format can not do 96 khz so they had to design new cards

Yes, but Dante is 48k anyway.

Oh well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

richard_cooper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 133
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #133 on: November 04, 2017, 05:58:23 pm »

Yes, but Dante is 48k anyway.

No it's not......

The Brooklyn 2 for instance can do up to 192KHz
Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3512
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #134 on: November 04, 2017, 06:25:55 pm »

No it's not......

The Brooklyn 2 for instance can do up to 192KHz

Ok, but if it is sampling at that rate, it would only be able to talk to other devices sampling at the same rate.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #135 on: November 05, 2017, 09:35:14 am »

Are you saying this authoritatively or presumptively? Afaik it uses a new form factor card which is essentially a small version of the dlive cards (at 96k)

SRC is not cheap at all. These mixers are built down to a price. Don't think for a second they aren't.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk



With authority, and try not preaching to the choir please. Any digital board is a CPU and associated chip sets supporting a mechanical/human interface. Any modern PC is a prime example of the ability to support multiple types of adapters which includes those for video, audio, disk arrays and external devices, to name a very few. SCSI, Firewire, enhanced video formats at varying sample rates, and even USB at different formats and rates.

It's not magic that all of these dissimilar adapters can be added, or are built into the motherboard, it is a matter of the external chip set being used to support the external device/protocol being translated for processing by the system CPU.

The hardware layer is the first layer of the ISO model. It is the board or chip set that receives the electrical or optical transmission of the data to be processed by the CPU. This chip set communicates with the CPU through a bus, and it is the bus supporting the I/O to the CPU and controlling BIOS which provides further communication to and from external chip sets and devices.

Those devices are designed to be compatible with the bus and the speed the bus supports, which is determined by the CPU, not the add in boards or supporting interfaces. The key to success is that the external device/I/O board be capable of "translating" the received information to information the bus and CPU can work with.

Processing for the external cards will be a function of the system bus ability to mate with the adapter in both mechanical and electrical/digital format. Processing of the data being received/transmitted by the external adapter is a function of the adapters abilities based on the chip set and instruction set, or how the adapter "speaks" to the bus.

So in a nutshell, if the new product, in this case the SQ, won't support anything BUT the new format 96k adapters, it's because someone said "Let's just put a smaller less functional port into the SQ. It will cost a few dollars less, but save development time, and open a new market for a new series of boards based on 96k only. Then we can also sell the new smaller lower chip count boards for less."

Here's where I'll agree and disagree on the cost factor. The initial design costs must be paid for through the sale of the product almost immediately upon introduction to the market. Profit from that point then become sale of the product minus the costs of manufacturing and distribution.

So, in order to meet a specific manufacturing cost, design factor, physical limitation, desire to market a new series of adapters, or even disregard for legacy product, the decision was made to NOT support the legacy product. My money is on design cost and chip count. Not because it couldn't be done.

To me and IMO, not supporting legacy product could be a determining factor for many people when choosing/not choosing the board, and I look at those factors as important which would outweigh the minimal upcharge required to make the board legacy compatible. For the newbie who chooses this as their first board it won't matter. To the business who may have a number of legacy cards on hand it will matter. It's all a marketing decision, EOS.     
Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Art Nadelman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 214
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #136 on: November 05, 2017, 09:22:13 pm »


To me and IMO, not supporting legacy product could be a determining factor for many people when choosing/not choosing the board, and I look at those factors as important which would outweigh the minimal upcharge required to make the board legacy compatible. For the newbie who chooses this as their first board it won't matter. To the business who may have a number of legacy cards on hand it will matter. It's all a marketing decision, EOS.   

Not supporting legacy products?  Show me another manufacturer that creates a 96kHz board and will allow you to continue to use their 48kHz legacy I/O boxes with it or the new 96kHz boxes that are much more costly.  I guess they just didn't want to make money on their I/O boards?

I'm guessing that if you look inside one, you'll find that the reason was real estate.  There was probably no room on the SQ-5 to put a legacy I/O board.

As for people not choosing them?  I've already got orders from customers for 10 of them.  And these are all for the 2nd batch of inventory.  The first batch is already sold out.

If you want one anytime soon, you better place your order now.
Logged

Peter Morris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1328
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #137 on: November 06, 2017, 07:15:49 am »

Not supporting legacy products?  Show me another manufacturer that creates a 96kHz board and will allow you to continue to use their 48kHz legacy I/O boxes with it or the new 96kHz boxes that are much more costly.  I guess they just didn't want to make money on their I/O boards?

I'm guessing that if you look inside one, you'll find that the reason was real estate.  There was probably no room on the SQ-5 to put a legacy I/O board.

As for people not choosing them?  I've already got orders from customers for 10 of them.  And these are all for the 2nd batch of inventory.  The first batch is already sold out.

If you want one anytime soon, you better place your order now.

I'm using the Dante card out of my 48KHz iLive in my Dlive. Allen & Heath made a reasonably priced letter box adaptor that allowed it to be used - thanks A&H  :)

I'm sure there is a good reason why this Dante card won't work in the SQ. As you suggested its probably real estate, the letter box adaptor is quite large.

A large part of the cost of a Dante card is paying licence fees to Audinate, sooo there is not as much profit as you would normally expect. My logic would suggest there is probably more profit for A&H if they could have just used the old card (?)

http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/adapter/
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 08:10:45 am by Peter Morris »
Logged

Bob Leonard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6807
  • Boston, MA USA
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #138 on: November 06, 2017, 07:54:39 am »

Not supporting legacy products?  Show me another manufacturer that creates a 96kHz board and will allow you to continue to use their 48kHz legacy I/O boxes with it or the new 96kHz boxes that are much more costly.  I guess they just didn't want to make money on their I/O boards?

I'm guessing that if you look inside one, you'll find that the reason was real estate.  There was probably no room on the SQ-5 to put a legacy I/O board.

As for people not choosing them?  I've already got orders from customers for 10 of them.  And these are all for the 2nd batch of inventory.  The first batch is already sold out.

If you want one anytime soon, you better place your order now.

Did you not read or understand my post?

" For the newbie who chooses this as their first board it won't matter."

Glad your selling boards. You can calm the fuck down now.
Logged
BOSTON STRONG........
Proud Vietnam Veteran

I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

richard_cooper

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 133
Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #139 on: November 06, 2017, 08:27:37 am »

To me and IMO, not supporting legacy product could be a determining factor for many people when choosing/not choosing the board, and I look at those factors as important which would outweigh the minimal upcharge required to make the board legacy compatible. For the newbie who chooses this as their first board it won't matter. To the business who may have a number of legacy cards on hand it will matter. It's all a marketing decision, EOS.   

And one of those marketing decisions will have to do with not wanting to release a new 96KHz line of boards where the interface cards are stuck at 48KHz. Remember this is not just about the Dante card, they've also announced there will be Waves and SLink options as well. The SLink card will have to be 96KHz to remain compatible with the DX and GigaAce links, so a new card interface would be required and I'm sure the DLive card format is physically too big, and probably expensive 128x128 is overkill at this level.

Without knowing the specification of the original card interface or the new one we can only take wild guesses at the practicality of creating a slot that could accommodate the old cards AND newer ones, and the costs there involved.

The DLive letterbox adapter is not a dumb adapter it does the sample rate conversion and who knows what other interface "glue".

I cannot think of any manufacturer that has maintained a completely uniform card format across multiple generations of console. Or even that don't have multiple card formats for different product lines, with the exception of Digico, but they were late to the interface card game.

You can calm the fuck down now.

Seems a little uncalled for.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New Allen & Heath SQ Series
« Reply #139 on: November 06, 2017, 08:27:37 am »


Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 16 ... 42   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.057 seconds with 22 queries.