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[John Roberts {JR}]

The sharp pencils at Live Nation started doing something like that:  basic tour style PA and lights, anything extra came out of artist's settlement.  It didn't last very long or happen in more than a few venues LN managed.  Artists said "fuck you, we won't play your rooms."

Of course it only works if the sound systems do not suck.... LN probably cut too many corners.

Must be nice if artists can afford to pass up gigs... I thought that was their primary source of income these days.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, just don't understand humping around tractor trailers full of racks and stacks everywhere. Several major shows a year in the same venue could(?) justify a permanent system... or not. Change is hard, and there would be a capital cost (while interest rates are still at relative lows).

LN could buy a few big systems from touring companies (if appropriate) to reduce their pain.

JR

[Justice C. Bigler]

I've been wondering how long it would take for concert venues to install permanent sound systems. I hope this incident triggers some reinspection of the old business plan... of course the big sound companies have skin in that decision.

Because when you are spending $200 million to $1.5 billion on one of these places, that $few hundred thousand for the PA system is just too much. It's actually the straw that break the camel's back on these projects.

[Tim McCulloch]

Of course it only works if the sound systems do not suck.... LN probably cut too many corners.

Must be nice if artists can afford to pass up gigs... I thought that was their primary source of income these days.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, just don't understand humping around tractor trailers full of racks and stacks everywhere. Several major shows a year in the same venue could(?) justify a permanent system... or not. Change is hard, and there would be a capital cost (while interest rates are still at relative lows).

LN could buy a few big systems from touring companies (if appropriate) to reduce their pain.

JR

Perhaps I should have used the more pretentious "artiste".

So long as performers want control over the means of delivery of their product they will likely reject installed or generic tour packages (LN also partnered up with a touring provider for package deals).  While not a direct comparison, it's like saying theaters should have a couple of box sets and every musical or play must use those with some set decorating and props carried with the tour.

It's also wise to note this happened about 10 years ago (maybe more), when LN was consolidating its venue management and tour promotion businesses; perhaps some venue owners (city & county governments) got squeamish that the vertical integration was not in their interests.

[Keith Broughton]

Several major shows a year in the same venue could(?) justify a permanent system... or not.

Perhaps not permanent but locally supplied, as required, and enough to cover the room properly.

[Justice C. Bigler]

Perhaps not permanent but locally supplied, as required, and enough to cover the room properly.

This thread isn't about the venue not having a properly designed and installed system. They did. A very high end one.


This thread is about the touring staff refusing to use it, and using all of their own PA gear, including the delay systems for the upper balcony.


I wonder if the head audio for Garth Brooks has the cojones to come on this forum and defend his decision to use their own, inadequate system?

[Tim McCulloch]

This thread isn't about the venue not having a properly designed and installed system. They did. A very high end one.


This thread is about the touring staff refusing to use it, and using all of their own PA gear, including the delay systems for the upper balcony.


I wonder if the head audio for Garth Brooks has the cajones to come on this forum and defend his decision to use their own, inadequate system?

Clair's corporate policy is that employees do not make public comments about company policy, equipment or procedures.

Oops, there went my Lititz job offer....

[Justice C. Bigler]

Clair's corporate policy is that employees do not make public comments about company policy, equipment or procedures.

Oops, there went my Lititz job offer....

Well, there you go. Circle the wagons to ensure that the public knows full well that you are guilty of making the wrong decision.


So until Clair or their staff make a statement, we can all rightly assume that they are all fools.

[Keith Broughton]

This thread isn't about the venue not having a properly designed and installed system. They did. A very high end one.


This thread is about the touring staff refusing to use it, and using all of their own PA gear, including the delay systems for the upper balcony.


I wonder if the head audio for Garth Brooks has the cojones to come on this forum and defend his decision to use their own, inadequate system?

Perhaps I didn't explain correctly. I know there is an adequate installed system. I was there to hear it.
I was responding to the notion that touring acts would not need to carry the extra gear required for a room like this if there was a local supplier that could install a complete , or suplimentary, system to make sure the musical acts had what they needed if they were not keen on using the "house system" for extra coverage their tour rig may not provide.
Personally, having heard the house rig, I would have connected to it but I wan't the guy making the decision.

[Justice C. Bigler]

Perhaps I didn't explain correctly. I know there is an adequate installed system I was there to hear it.
I was responding to the notion that touring acts would not need to carry the extra gear required for a room like this if there was a local supplier that could install a complete , or suplimentary, system to make sure the musical acts had what they needed if they were not keen on using the "house system".
Personally, having heard the house rig, I would have connected to it but I wan't the guy making the decision.

I have been woefully disappointed with nearly all of the touring systems that I have heard. Doesn't matter if it's a rock and roll arena show or a Broadway tour; or if it's a Meyer, L-Acoustics, D&B or JBL or Clair rig (sorry Ivan, I haven't heard any touring Danley systems yet).


Probably 7 times out of 10 lack clarity and definition and just overwhelm you with sheer volume and sub frequencies. Over more than a hundred shows that I have seen or worked with touring systems; I can count on one hand the number that I thought actually sounded good.


That new arena in Atlanta is something like 80,000 seats? You simply can't get the level of definition and clarity with a touring rig; when you are loading in at 6 or 7 am and have a show that night, and have only an hour with your split lunch to do system tuning. To get that level of clarity and even coverage you have to use the house system (if there is one) that was installed and tuned tuned over the course of weeks or months, and probably cost more than the touring systems that are brought in did.


But, my ear is skewed also. I grew up playing in wind ensembles and jazz bands, and I work mostly with classical music ensembles: ballet, opera and symphonies. So I have a completely different expectation of balance and clarity when it comes to sound reinforcement.

[Keith Broughton]

You simply can't get the level of definition and clarity with a touring rig; when you are loading in at 6 or 7 am and have a show that night, and have only an hour with your split lunch to do system tuning. To get that level of clarity and even coverage you have to use the house system (if there is one) that was installed and tuned tuned over the course of weeks or months, and probably cost more than the touring systems that are brought in did.

That's my point!
Use the house rig or a well sorted, locally supplied, rental rig to augment the touring package. Or, don't sell all the seats.
No, it worn't be perfect but, again, we are trying to do a music show in a football stadium!
No problem there...

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