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[Eric du Toit]

The price difference is significant : $15 each for the iMM-6 or $200 for the iTestMic2

The usage for us - once a week after setup in a new place, RTA the mains and monitors.   The iMM-6 has proven to be pretty good for this task but the headphone jack seems to get bent easy and now I either need to order several of the iMM-6 mics or get one iTestMic2.

I may have already answered my own question - but I could buy over 10 iMM-6 mics for less than the price of one iTestMic2.  The iTestMic2 will work with newer iPhones having only a lightning port without needing a dongle.

Is the iTestMic2 that much better that I should buy it over buying ~4 iMM-6 mics and keeping spares for a quick RTA once a week?

To be clear - I don't have a problem spending $200 on a test microphone, but do I get that much more out of the iTestMic2?  Reliability or durability is 1st with accuracy a close second.

[Bryan French]

do I get that much more out of the iTestMic2?  Reliability or durability is 1st with accuracy a close second.

I would think that if you're having problems bending a 3.5mm audio jack then you'll probably have the same issue with breaking a lightning connection.

For your described use case scenario I would think either would work fine, with the cheaper one being easier to replace if broken.

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

If your happy with the other mic just replace the plug?

I honestly wouldn't waste much money on any rig to be used on a phone to do RTA. What does the rest of your setup look like, if you have an M32 or X32 or any console that has an RTA on a channel or on each channel then you will probably be better off buying a more versatile product. The B***** ECM8000 will get you into a barely useable reference mic for much less then 200 USD.

[Eric du Toit]

If your happy with the other mic just replace the plug?

I honestly wouldn't waste much money on any rig to be used on a phone to do RTA.

All good thoughts and helpful - I think I was vague in my setup.   We are using an XR18 and so I don't re-hash all my gear and use case, here is a thread discussing what we have :
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,163483.msg1504601.html#msg1504601


Unfortunately the dirt cheap mic doesn't have a replaceable plug since it's a TRRS headphone plug.
Regarding bending a plug, I'm usually very careful with my gear and I'm very surprised that I'm having trouble with it, but it's a $15 mic.

I rely on StudioSix digital tools on iOS devices so the iTestMic2 would probably make the most since because of the direct integration with iOS.  Calibration file will automatically be injected into the software on connection of the mic.

I found several other posts (avsforum and other places) that I read through - the TRRS can have bleed through - I've never noticed it, but who knows..  The TRRS iMM6 mic depends on the position and placement of the iOS device (phone, ipad).  With iTestMic2, I can place it on a stand and move away from the mic while watching the iPad.

I think the right answer is iTestMic2 for my application, I was just trying to find a good reason to go cheap.

[Jean-Pierre Coetzee]

There is an RTA on all channel eqs on the XR18.
Is there anything your iPhone is doing that it won't?

Sent from my 2014817 using Tapatalk

[Eric du Toit]

There is an RTA on all channel eqs on the XR18.
Is there anything your iPhone is doing that it won't?

Maybe not..   I'm using http://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/   for RTA.  You may have sparked a thought that could save me ~$140USD.

The XR18 doesn't have a built-in pink noise gen.  I can use the StudioSix RTA "app" I already own to run line-in to the XR18 as it includes built-in pink noise.  I can connect a Behringer ECM8000 mic to any channel, set it flat, and use the built-in RTA to set my EQ on the mains and monitors.

Hmm..... I'd take that I think.  We're not going for absolute perfection, just "real close" is good enough for me since we are setting up for ~2 church services or special events each time and they are all different venues.
 
I think an advantage I gain to using iPad + StudioSix + iTestMic2 is that it (the iTestMic2) does come with a calibration file that when connected to the iPad/iOS device via lightning, is automatically imported into StudioSix RTA (and their other apps).

[Dave Scarlett]

Only a slight swerve:

http://www.bennettprescott.com/downloads/devil_with_rta.pdf

[Scott Holtzman]

Only a slight swerve:

http://www.bennettprescott.com/downloads/devil_with_rta.pdf

Excellent article.  Small venue measurement is rarely productive.   You run pink through the system then adjust EQ at a position to obtain a result?  Do you use it to pick loudspeaker placement or confirm the proper operation of a deployment that was modeled in advance?

[Eric du Toit]

Excellent article.  Small venue measurement is rarely productive.

I'm not really even sure how to respond without coming off as a jerk.

I'm just looking for advice if someone has used the iTestMic2.  I'm not sure how we ended up discussing the pros and cons of using an RTA.  It works well enough for me to get a reasonable baseline, and most of the places we're going don't have any signal processing, EQ, or trained techs to set it up.   I run pink through, adjust the EQ, have my girls play/sing, and make some additional adjustments from there after I've quickly established a baseline eliminating huge frequency variations in the room.  I pick loudspeaker placement first by identifying the places our portable stand and sub+pole will safely fit - sometimes that dictates only one place - if I have more than one place, I chose based on seating configuration and what I think should work well for the room.  I have no option to model, most of these places have crayolaCAD blueprints if they even still have them.

I linked above to a thread with the equipment we are using and exactly what we are doing with it to help anyone curious about why I was asking.

I'd be curious Scott as to what you would go through in a similar situation or what you would recommend for someone like me who is not a professional - but better than average - to setup a temporary sound reinforcement system like I described?  I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say since you did drop by, tell me how rarely productive what I am doing is, and throw out some questions. (not sarcasm)

I don't understand confirm the proper operation of a deployment that was modeled in advance - can you clarify ?

[Scott Holtzman]

I'm not really even sure how to respond without coming off as a jerk.



I'd be curious Scott as to what you would go through in a similar situation or what you would recommend for someone like me who is not a professional - but better than average - to setup a temporary sound reinforcement system like I described?  I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say since you did drop by, tell me how rarely productive what I am doing is, and throw out some questions. (not sarcasm)

I don't understand confirm the proper operation of a deployment that was modeled in advance - can you clarify ?

It's OK we are all jerks - however always willing to learn

 You can't ask how to setup a tool without inviting discussion on the use of the tool.  About the only reason I could I ever think of needing  an RTA live is if you are not good at identifying frequencies and are having a feedback issue.

 Frankly I don't have feedback issues anymore nor do I need to ring out monitors on each gig and certainly don't have to run pink and tune the room.

If you are having to ring out those last few DB out of the PA or monitor rig and you find yourself EQ's the crap out of it you either have a gain structure, deployment issue (source too close to the speakers)   or your are asking more of the equipment than it can deliver.

With regard to EQ'ing a room.  I can't possibly say it any better than that article.  It's a fallacy.  Any small tweaks should be able to be accomplished with a little sound check music and your ears.  +10 for virtual soundcheck.

WRT modeling.  I am speaking of software such as EASE that allows you to model system performance.  This becomes important when you are adjusting splay angles and levels of arrays and want to confirm the modelers prediction in the actual space.

                 

[Eric du Toit]

It's OK we are all jerks - however always willing to learn

That's fair - I wasn't trying to be difficult.  I think I was a bit frustrated at what seemed to be a drive-by-posting.  I appreciate your follow up and not flaming me for what could have been interpreted as incendiary.

Right on that EASE would be a good tool for modeling performance, but the places we are going are so small that the amount of effort involved in something like that for a total of 60 minutes of music is overkill for my application.

We're never running anything much hotter than 85dB since it's bluegrass and most people run away from banjo playing.  Some of the places we go are so acoustically a mess that trying to ring it out is an exercise in futility. With QSC K10 tops and a Mackie SRM1550 Sub, I could (probably, I've never tried) exceed 98dB fairly continuous in the smaller churches we're in so headroom / last few dB isn't usually a problem. - and they're so small and compact that no one believes how loud they can actually get.  I'm not saying we're anything special, but we sound good, full, and controlled.  It's really nice - something I've only heard at the more contemporary churches - though we're not as loud intentionally.

I have a certain comfort level in starting with the RTA to see if there is anything crazy in the room and to get somewhat close to the final result.  It's not a perfect solution, but it's a tool that I've used to get closer to what I want and then use my ears to finish it.  Things have changed quite a bit with digital consoles, RTAs overlaid on the digital EQ display, etc.. and so I'm learning much more about the equipment I have - each time it gets better.

I'm pretty certain that I'll get good use out of the iTestMic2 even though my wallet says get another iMM-6 and keep one on backup for when it craps out.

Thanks again! I may post a followup after 6 months of using it.

[Scott Holtzman]

That's fair - I wasn't trying to be difficult.  I think I was a bit frustrated at what seemed to be a drive-by-posting.  I appreciate your follow up and not flaming me for what could have been interpreted as incendiary.

Right on that EASE would be a good tool for modeling performance, but the places we are going are so small that the amount of effort involved in something like that for a total of 60 minutes of music is overkill for my application.

We're never running anything much hotter than 85dB since it's bluegrass and most people run away from banjo playing.  Some of the places we go are so acoustically a mess that trying to ring it out is an exercise in futility. With QSC K10 tops and a Mackie SRM1550 Sub, I could (probably, I've never tried) exceed 98dB fairly continuous in the smaller churches we're in so headroom / last few dB isn't usually a problem. - and they're so small and compact that no one believes how loud they can actually get.  I'm not saying we're anything special, but we sound good, full, and controlled.  It's really nice - something I've only heard at the more contemporary churches - though we're not as loud intentionally.

I have a certain comfort level in starting with the RTA to see if there is anything crazy in the room and to get somewhat close to the final result.  It's not a perfect solution, but it's a tool that I've used to get closer to what I want and then use my ears to finish it.  Things have changed quite a bit with digital consoles, RTAs overlaid on the digital EQ display, etc.. and so I'm learning much more about the equipment I have - each time it gets better.

I'm pretty certain that I'll get good use out of the iTestMic2 even though my wallet says get another iMM-6 and keep one on backup for when it craps out.

Thanks again! I may post a followup after 6 months of using it.

Just let go man...You are not pushing your system hard.  Get back that 15 minutes of your life you spend going through the motions.

Now that that is all said I have the iTestmic2 and love it.  But I use it for measuring loudspeaker performance and adjusting processing on biamped and triamped rigs in the shop.  It has never left the shop (or my basement when I setup my home theater).

[Eric du Toit]

... I have the iTestmic2 and love it.

Dude... you crazy man..   Thanks again for the reply - good to know.  I really do appreciate it!

[Scott Holtzman]

Dude... you crazy man..   Thanks again for the reply - good to know.  I really do appreciate it!

You took my quote out of context.  That's not fair. 

[Eric du Toit]

You took my quote out of context.  That's not fair.

I did..  I'll buy lunch next time I'm in Cleveland area.   

[Scott Holtzman]

I did..  I'll buy lunch next time I'm in Cleveland area.   

Slyman's

[Jim Thorn]

I think I'd go cheap and easy by getting a 3.5mm TRRS male-to-female extension cable, and placing that between the phone (or tablet) and the IMM-6.  If you get one with a 90 degree male end, it should be almost impervious to damage at the phone end, and if it's very short, the mic just dangles a few inches below the phone (it IS an omni mic, after all, so the direction it points is almost irrelevant.)  If you get a longer one, you can rig the mic to a stand with a little gaffer tape, or even hold it in your free hand.

When I searched for "3.5 mm TRRS extension cable", Google showed me many inexpensive options, in a variety of lengths.

Best Regards,
Jim Thorn

The price difference is significant : $15 each for the iMM-6 or $200 for the iTestMic2

The usage for us - once a week after setup in a new place, RTA the mains and monitors.   The iMM-6 has proven to be pretty good for this task but the headphone jack seems to get bent easy and now I either need to order several of the iMM-6 mics or get one iTestMic2.

I may have already answered my own question - but I could buy over 10 iMM-6 mics for less than the price of one iTestMic2.  The iTestMic2 will work with newer iPhones having only a lightning port without needing a dongle.

Is the iTestMic2 that much better that I should buy it over buying ~4 iMM-6 mics and keeping spares for a quick RTA once a week?

To be clear - I don't have a problem spending $200 on a test microphone, but do I get that much more out of the iTestMic2?  Reliability or durability is 1st with accuracy a close second.