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[Dave Bigelow]

I don't think anybody is trying to flame you here man, they are just trying to help point out why these wedges cost more and why that price is justified.

I agree that you don't need them on a $500 gig but when moving up in size and pay the gear needs to come up as well. Especially if you go doing a show on a big outdoor stage. Lots of cheaper wedges are just gonna disappear.

For example we have a rig in a 1200-1500 seat venue that has the old Peavy DTH 15 and 2 wedges, in that venue they work great. Now when the gigs are bigger those stay there and the EAW SM500s come out. Sure, both wedges are a 15 and a 2, both are bi-amp'd, both are black, etc. Put them side by side and one will rip your face off while the other gets kinda loud.

[Chuck Simon]

I have to say, Gordon, you do have balls posting that question here, knowing that there are always those who love to use questions like that as an opportunity to put someone down and show how "advanced" they are!

[Charlie Zureki]

I have to say, Gordon, you do have balls posting that question here, knowing that there are always those who love to use questions like that as an opportunity to put someone down and show how "advanced" they are!

   Hello,

   Yeah, he does have balls (Thanks, Gordon) for posting a question in regards to a quality versus cost issue.  For many people, it is painfully obvious between different classes of gear. ( at different price points)

   Many Audio Pros have "worked" these questions out in their minds over their years of experience. By their experience, they have developed a "critical ear" and have made note of what tends to work and what doesn't seem to fit a specific need. (especially their need)

   Human hearing "skills" can be educated, and become more discerning in most people through repetition. The economic factors are quite evident in Audio, they've also learned that generally, "you get what you pay for", when it comes to Professional Audio gear.

  (As Ivan said: Spam v.s. Steak, they may enjoy Spam, but, when they are introduced to a nice piece of New York Strip Steak, their scale changes.  The NY Steak becomes their new choice, until it is replaced by a Delmonico Steak.)

  So...while some responses may have been a bit short, I'm sure that no one meant to bash Gordon. I believe some of the responses were an informed, off the cuff, "how do you not know the differences" mixed with some ribbing. 

  While some may forget that they've experienced this Audio "break-through" or Audio critical listening education, that sometimes took them years to develop, it's just as easy to forget that they were once in an unenlightened phase.

   There is no shame in asking questions. We all should ask questions.

   Cheers,
   Hammer

 

   

[Brian Ehlers]

A lot of that stuff is overpriced, one, because they can, and two, because they can.

That's simply not true.  It's insulting to Clair Bros. -- and any company making high-end equipment -- to say that their prices are based on greed.

Everyone here seems to be focusing on the recurring costs -- the manufacturing costs -- of building a monitor.  What's being forgotten is the non-recurring costs:  the engineering, testing, market research, factory investment, project management, etc.  These costs are not only higher for a piece of high-end gear, but they also have to be ammortized over a much smaller number of units sold.  When Company A sets out to design and bring to market their new super-duper product, they know full well that only a small percentage of the market will be willing to pay for that quality.  If they spend $2M developing it and know they will only sell 1000 pieces, that means each piece gets $2000 tacked on to its price before it's even built.  And they still haven't made a profit.  Meanwhile, Company B spends $2M developing an entry-level product they know will sell 100,000 pieces, and they only have to tack $20 onto the price of each.

The same thing happens for high-end consumer audio, high-end cars, high-end ANYthing.  Whether or not the higher performance is worth the additional money or has gone beyond the so-called "point of diminishing returns" (as IF that would be single point!) is completely up to each individual purchaser.

[Charlie Zureki]

Everyone here seems to be focusing on the recurring costs -- the manufacturing costs -- of building a monitor.  What's being forgotten is the non-recurring costs:  the engineering, testing, market research, factory investment, project management, etc.  These costs are not only higher for a piece of high-end gear, but they also have to be ammortized over a much smaller number of units sold.

   Hello,

  And...NO, not "everyone", some have already included these other costs in their posts.

   Cheers,
   Hammer

[Ronnie.Reels]

I may be answering my own questions here but, I have done a little digging into the cost.

The best I can tell, the components in the 12am are JBL 2206H and JBL 2450J. Full Compass sells those parts retail for $430 and $1470 respectively. Ouch! Of course you must also account for horn lens, cabinet hardware, and construction. I am guessing the proprietary processing does a little time alignment, phase correction, and dips the mid-range (opposite of most microphone humps) for feedback control.

Even if you were to build one in your garage it would cost near $2500 if not more.

In the early days when they used Carver amps didn't the 12am have EV components....at least the 12?

[Geoff Doane]

In the early days when they used Carver amps didn't the 12am have EV components....at least the 12?

I think you're right about the 12".  IIRC, the compression driver was a JBL 2445.

GTD

[David Parker]

I don't think anybody is trying to flame you here man, they are just trying to help point out why these wedges cost more and why that price is justified.

I agree that you don't need them on a $500 gig but when moving up in size and pay the gear needs to come up as well. Especially if you go doing a show on a big outdoor stage. Lots of cheaper wedges are just gonna disappear.

For example we have a rig in a 1200-1500 seat venue that has the old Peavy DTH 15 and 2 wedges, in that venue they work great. Now when the gigs are bigger those stay there and the EAW SM500s come out. Sure, both wedges are a 15 and a 2, both are bi-amp'd, both are black, etc. Put them side by side and one will rip your face off while the other gets kinda loud.

this IS the lounge, right? Anyone using $4000 wedges doesn't belong in the lounge. While I'm sure the clair is worth more than a yamaha club series, I do believe you pay for the name as well as quality. And I do realize that in any market, price is used to separate classes. As I said previously, I'm not in the clair class and don't want to be. AND! If the money wasn't there, the high dollar equipment wouldn't be either. Just simple truths.

[Greg Hershey]

Anyone who claims the 12AM is overpriced and then compares it to a MI grade box obviously has no idea what the performance difference with a real box is and has obviously never worked in the pro market.

This covers it.

[Gordon Brinton]

Anyone who claims the 12AM is overpriced and then compares it to a MI grade box obviously has no idea what the performance difference with a real box is and has obviously never worked in the pro market.

This covers it.

We don't know who Bennett's comment was aimed at. I don't think it was me because I didn't compare anything. I was simply asking how much bigger and badder the Clairs really are.

[ProSoundWeb Community]