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Author Topic: 70v system design help  (Read 2847 times)

Tony Ijaz

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70v system design help
« on: October 04, 2017, 01:17:09 PM »

Hi!  First time poster.  I'm helping my church fix our audio problems.  The current 70v system was installed just a few years ago and is not working as planned.  Zones do not work properly, lots of buzzing and humming, some speakers do not work at all.

In short, we have 4 rooms requiring zoned audio from 4 mics -- one main room and 3 satellite rooms.  Each room needs to have the ability to hear only the mic in that room, however there is a "master" mic in the main room that should be heard in all rooms when desired.

Speech only no music, instruments, ducking, background sounds, etc.  Ambient sound is minimal.  Zone control needed in each room.

I am attaching a diagram to better help explain the design need - including room dimensions, number of speakers, zoning, mics, etc.  From what I can tell, each speaker is "home-run" to the AV room in the current install.  Current install has a Yamaha MG16/4 mixer, Crown CDi1000 amp, Crown CH1 amp, A/V Matrix Switcher (MAV plus Series connected to a URC MRX-2 network base station and LCD screen keypads) and a bunch of ceiling speakers.  Rooms C & D have their own CH1 amp and Yamaha mixer.  It's a complicated mess. 

I want to get rid of the A/V matrix switcher and URC stuff, and install old-school zone volume control dials.  I believe I can use the mixers, amps and most of the speakers.  So my question and request for help is how to redesign the set-up to meet the objective in the attached picture?  Specifically, will my idea of adding in-wall zone dials work well?

Note:  in the diagram, where it notes "B Only" and "A+B only" is how the zoning should work for the mics.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 01:31:45 PM by Tony Ijaz »
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Tony Ijaz

Taylor Phillips

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2017, 01:57:56 PM »

Do you really need microphones in the smaller rooms? Each room will need it's own separate system - mixer, amp, & speakers. Split the output of the mixer in the main room and send them to another input on the mixers in the other rooms that need to hear it.  I'm not familiar with 70v equipment and installation, so I can't advise on what is causing the current issues with the buzzing etc.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2017, 02:42:55 PM »

It looks like the matrix switcher would be all you need considering everything is already home run, this would be the point of the touch panels from what I can understand but I didn't look too closely.

I'm not entirely sure if the matrix switcher was the correct unit to use but why exactly would you want to decrease the functionality of the system.

I would honestly look at the causes of the current problems and then make sure the matrix switcher is correctly setup. Honestly if you didn't need to worry about gain on the mic I would just use the MG16 and go out of the groups but that does not allow you to control the gain at all.

Someone will chime in with the correct processor to be used, there are likely a whole range of them as well as several different solutions.
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Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2017, 02:45:39 PM »

The matrix mixer was the way to control the main mic into A only, AB only, and ABCD. 
Ground lift the signal ground at B, C, and D.  Leave the ground shield connected at the source A. This provides the ground a drain to help reduce RFI.  Is the signal cables balanced and three wire. twisted pair with shield. 

B,C and D should have two inputs each, one for the mic and one to receive from A. 
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2017, 02:50:59 PM »

The matrix mixer was the way to control the main mic into A only, AB only, and ABCD. 
Ground lift the signal ground at B, C, and D.  Leave the ground shield connected at the source A. This provides the ground a drain to help reduce RFI.  Is the signal cables balanced and three wire. twisted pair with shield. 

B,C and D should have two inputs each, one for the mic and one to receive from A.

Agreed with this, I'm pretty sure you should be able to do all the control from the matrix switcher and not need any mixers at all so not sure what the mixers purpose was in the original setup.
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Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

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Tony Ijaz

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2017, 05:52:11 PM »

To answer the question about the need for a mixer, I added a little more detail to the diagram (see below).  There are actually 3 mics in Room A -- a lectern mic for sermons, and 2 mics that are sometimes used on tabletops during presentations.  I also added the list of equipment that is already installed in each room.  The two main problems are that the touch-pad zone switching is messed up.  Even manually switching using the A/V matrix, the zoning does not seem to correspond to the buttons anymore (thus my frustration and desire to junk the whole thing!).  One approach is to disconnect the URC MRX-2 controller from the system and see what happens. 

The other problem is that numerous speakers do not work and significant buzz and hum in Room B. 

I am willing to disconnect every wire and reconstruct the system.  Perhaps my question now is with the equipment listed, what is the suggested wiring scheme to get the zones working and eliminate the hum/buzz?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2017, 05:58:49 PM by Tony Ijaz »
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Tony Ijaz

David Sturzenbecher

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 08:42:04 PM »

This is a simple set up for any DSP with "room combine". A cakewalk for the likes of Biamp, BSS, QSys, mediamatrix, symmetrix.

All of these have dedicated wall controllers to talk to the DSP units, were you can adjust gain and connect and disconnect rooms.





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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2017, 05:02:52 AM »

Which version of that MAV plus do you have, as far as I can tell any one of them should accept 8 inputs but disclaimer I have not look at any manuals for the gear just speculating, can I recommend you read the manual and whatever information you can get on the matrix switcher and control unit, this should answer all your problems.

Then individually test every single component to make sure its working.
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Audio Technician
Word & Life Church

"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

Jerome Malsack

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2017, 02:15:45 PM »

Ok at Room B, Isolate the incoming signals by disconnect and mark to reconnect when done. 
If when disconnected and powered on you should not have hum. 
If you connect a microphone to the unit it should be hum free and allow for normal voice. 

If hum is still present when disconnected the amp may be broken and need service or replacement.
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Tony Ijaz

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Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 12:40:01 AM »

This is a simple set up for any DSP with "room combine". A cakewalk for the likes of Biamp, BSS, QSys, mediamatrix, symmetrix.

All of these have dedicated wall controllers to talk to the DSP units, were you can adjust gain and connect and disconnect rooms.

Can I use these with the existing speakers and amps?  For system requirements described above, what sort of cost do you estimate for the equipment from one of these companies?  Any recommendations?
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Tony Ijaz

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: 70v system design help
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 12:40:01 AM »


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