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Author Topic: Gym Speaker Setup - Project Completed merged  (Read 17552 times)

Rob Spence

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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2018, 01:56:47 pm »

Yes, it's permanent and yes it is a safety problem.  Needs to be in conduit, all the way.  Would have to see the whole run to comment on the most dangerous parts.  Those metal conduit straps holding it in place is a good place to start complaining.

EMT is what you mean I think Scott. Raceway, yes. Conduit, I donít think is required. The clips are, in fact 1/2Ē EMT clips and not for use with cords.


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rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2018, 02:35:04 pm »

EMT is what you mean I think Scott. Raceway, yes. Conduit, I donít think is required. The clips are, in fact 1/2Ē EMT clips and not for use with cords.


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We know it as EMT but even the big box stores sell it as conduit so I choose my words for that reason.  Updated post for clarity, thanks.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2018, 04:02:33 pm »

EMT is what you mean I think Scott. Raceway, yes. Conduit, I donít think is required. The clips are, in fact 1/2Ē EMT clips and not for use with cords.

Those clips look too small for EMT. I believe they are for MC or MC-lite cable (the metal flex stuff with the wire already inside). A person could probably get away with running MC-lite or flex (if not "subject to physical damage" per code) from the existing receptacle box to a receptacle inside the cabinet. (If it could be subject to damage, then it has to be at least EMT or otherwise protected.)

http://www.ecmweb.com/contractor/working-metal-clad-cable-and-emt
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Stop confusing the issue with facts and logic!

Robert Weaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2018, 06:42:02 pm »

I'm not a rigger or an engineer, so take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt. It's somewhat random thoughts, and genuine good engineering advice will be based on actual load calculations.

I don't like the way the chains are holding that up. I can't see detail well, but it doesn't look like welded chain. The links are not designed for side loading, which is what happens when you drape them over the purlin that way. Side loaded, it can cause the link to open. Secondly, it doesn't look like chain that's rated "for overhead lifting." Normally chain is rated with a safety factor of around 2:1 (I think) -- where the working load is half the breaking strength. For overhead lifting, you need about a 10:1 safety ratio: the working load rating is 1/10 the breaking strength.

I would expect to see a properly engineered support use welded chain rated for overhead lifting, cables, or steel rods. Any of these support materials would be longitudinally loaded; no side forces. The attachment to the purlin would be by means of a proper purlin clamp or holes drilled according to the engineer's specifications. Mounting eyes would be forged, closed eyes with specific ratings for side loading.

Properly rigging the speaker would be easy and not terribly expensive. The most expensive part of the process would be getting good design from a structural engineer or certified rigger.

I wasn't there. I don't know everything you do. It's just that, based on the pictures, it looks a little suspect.

Polar Focus supplied all of the hardware for the rigging.  That was their rigging design.   
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2018, 06:46:38 pm »

I would have put the speaker wire in conduit also.  Agree the chains are not acceptable.

This is what was supplied and recommended for our application.

http://www.polarfocus.com/catalog/family/rigging-chain-sling-kits-16/#family-header
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2018, 06:51:42 pm »

Those clips look too small for EMT. I believe they are for MC or MC-lite cable (the metal flex stuff with the wire already inside). A person could probably get away with running MC-lite or flex (if not "subject to physical damage" per code) from the existing receptacle box to a receptacle inside the cabinet. (If it could be subject to damage, then it has to be at least EMT or otherwise protected.)

http://www.ecmweb.com/contractor/working-metal-clad-cable-and-emt

The wire that was used is the same wire used to connect various machinery components together.  The only thing that will ever hit it are balls.  The sheathing was extremely hard to cut with a sharp knife.  I consulted with the electrician about doing that. 
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Gym speaker setup
« Reply #76 on: May 04, 2018, 07:38:54 pm »

Yes, it's permanent and yes it is a safety problem.  Needs to be in EMT (thin wall non threaded conduit), all the way.  Would have to see the whole run to comment on the most dangerous parts.  Those metal conduit straps holding it in place is a good place to start complaining.

What's the safety problem?  This wire is 6+ feet above the floor.  Unless someone decides to bring and axe in and start hacking away at the walls above head level we might have a problem.  The only thing that will hit that receptacle or wire are balls. Those metal straps aren't going to cut that sheathing.  The wire is clamped where it enters the rack as to not be pulled out of the rack.  Both ends are terminated with 20 amp plugs on the 10/3 wire. Btw that sheathing on that wire is extremely tough.  However with that being said I have already considered having a hardwire run into that receptacle box to terminate inside the rack to plug  the power sequencer into.  If the wire had be coming from the bottom I could see the concern with the tables being placed underneath the rack.   
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Rob Spence

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Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #77 on: May 04, 2018, 09:10:04 pm »

What's the safety problem?  This wire is 6+ feet above the floor.  Unless someone decides to bring and axe in and start hacking away at the walls above head level we might have a problem.  The only thing that will hit that receptacle or wire are balls. Those metal straps aren't going to cut that sheathing.  The wire is clamped where it enters the rack as to not be pulled out of the rack.  Both ends are terminated with 20 amp plugs on the 10/3 wire. Btw that sheathing on that wire is extremely tough.  However with that being said I have already considered having a hardwire run into that receptacle box to terminate inside the rack to plug  the power sequencer into.  If the wire had be coming from the bottom I could see the concern with the tables being placed underneath the rack.

It doesnít matter what you or I think about how rugged things are. There is a code for wiring that is backed by laws. Generally it is based on the National Electrical Code (NEC) which is written by insurance companies and often adopted in part or completely by local cities, towns or states and made law.

There are sections of the code for installed equipment. There are also sections for public buildings.
The requirements may seem silly but usually they have been well thought out.

In this case, sure, it seems that the only threat is basketballs but what about the bozo that leans a metal ladder against it?
How about the delinquent who thinks itís funny to carve it up with a pocket knife?



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rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Robert Weaver

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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #78 on: May 04, 2018, 09:28:21 pm »

It doesn’t matter what you or I think about how rugged things are. There is a code for wiring that is backed by laws. Generally it is based on the National Electrical Code (NEC) which is written by insurance companies and often adopted in part or completely by local cities, towns or states and made law.

There are sections of the code for installed equipment. There are also sections for public buildings.
The requirements may seem silly but usually they have been well thought out.

In this case, sure, it seems that the only threat is basketballs but what about the bozo that leans a metal ladder against it?
How about the delinquent who thinks it’s funny to carve it up with a pocket knife?



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I say have fun putting a ladder there with the equipment rack sticking out.  As to the delinquent carving it up with a pocks` et knife there are plenty of exposed outlets to stick objects in that are far more accessible. I consulted with the electrician who installed the outlet. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 09:34:25 pm by Robert Weaver »
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
« Reply #79 on: May 04, 2018, 10:03:26 pm »

It doesnít matter what you or I think about how rugged things are. There is a code for wiring that is backed by laws. Generally it is based on the National Electrical Code (NEC) which is written by insurance companies and often adopted in part or completely by local cities, towns or states and made law.

There are sections of the code for installed equipment. There are also sections for public buildings.
The requirements may seem silly but usually they have been well thought out.

In this case, sure, it seems that the only threat is basketballs but what about the bozo that leans a metal ladder against it?
How about the delinquent who thinks itís funny to carve it up with a pocket knife?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

The wiring in use is 10/3 SOOW wiring.  It's perfectly acceptable for this kind of use.  All it does is get power from the outlet to the sequencer.  The cord on the sequencer would be far more susceptible to damage. It's clamped to the rack to keep it from being pulled out.  The only reason the straps are there is to keep it near the wall and to further keep from pulling and stressing the wire.  It's technically not permanently attached as there is space around the strap and the wire.  It's there more to contain it.  Some might interpret it as permanently attached, but it's my opinion that it actually makes for a safer install than to leave it hanging loose.  I wanted to ability to unplug the equipment without having to open the rack. 
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Re: Gym speaker setup - Project Completed
¬ę Reply #79 on: May 04, 2018, 10:03:26 pm ¬Ľ


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