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Author Topic: Gym Speaker Setup - Project Completed merged  (Read 18286 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Gym speaker setup
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2018, 12:28:55 pm »

The front row was blasted out while the back was not great, but okay.  We also had many functional issues due to being hacked together.  I personally believe that with the advent of really good powered speakers has simplified things from the perspective of installation.  Also many have a simple DSP that offers protection to the speaker.  The portable column line array is a game changer as well.  From testing the ip1000 we purchased the coverage seems to be really good and even side to side and front to back to about 60'. From the center of the proposed column speaker it will need to cover about 20' on each side of the speaker and about 50' back. For the larger setup I believe we will need the more powerful ip3000s due to the fact that our noise floor is about 75dB when all the kids are in the gym just seated.  It can get as high as 90dB during rally time.

I agree that powered speakers have simplified install use-however not every issue can be fixed by electronics alone.  No matter what, a speaker that is not up high will still be significantly close to the front row than the back so the front row will be much louder-physics dictates that the distance from the source needs to be as even as possible to   It is easy for a room to sound fairly even in coverage when empty-and you don't need much volume to hear the content.  A room full of noisy teens is altogether different (I work with a similar situation every year at our church).  We have a well designed install with reaonably even coverage-but any discrepancies are highlighted in these situations.
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Steve Swaffer

Robert Weaver

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Re: Gym speaker setup
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2018, 12:06:24 am »

It might be worth taking a step back and looking at your usage cases.

You've mentioned one week a year where everything will get used. Will the system sit in storage the rest of the time, or will bits of it come out for smaller events?
If it was mine, I'd take a good look at buying something small for day-to-day use, and the one week per year where you need something bigger, see what rental options there are.

Chris

I've sat down and put together a system that will work.  This system will scale down to the simplest of used to VBS which is very dynamic.  Even church services if we can't use our auditorium. It will pretty much run itself for most events.  It's a push button on/off sequence and turn a knob to increase or decrease the volume.  They wanted a permanent rack mounted on the wall that is locked. Our previous portable sound system rack was tipped over and busted by the roll up door between the gym and fellowship hall.  We don't really have the room to store the equipment away.  I've configured two options.  Each system will comprise of these common components:

(2-3) Dedicated 20 Amp circuits depending on speaker setup
(1) Lockable Rack Mount Rack
(1) Furman RS-2 Sequencing Switch
(1) Sequencing System
(1) Yamaha TF Rack
(3) Audio Technica System 10 Pro Dual Receivers
(4) Handheld mics
(2) Bodypack mics

Speaker system:

(1) Crown XTi 6002 paired with a single JBL CBT 1000+E with custom protecting cage

or

(2) Turbosound IP3000 portable speakers

A couple of the reasons I picked the TF rack was password protection and automixing.  I also like the fact that you don't need a computer to configure the device.  On the speaker selection flying speakers is NOT an option.  They want speakers on or in the wall.  I've already told them that the in wall speakers they had quoted originally wasn't going to work.  I'm also looking at the possibility of integrating this system specifically the mics and mixer into our junior church setup on one end of the gym.  We are currently using an Turbosound IP1000 with the old system rack.
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Robert Weaver

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Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2018, 01:52:19 pm »

We are going to have a JBL CBT 1000+1000E installed in our gymnasium.  There are two options with one being obviously having the speaker rigged with aircraft cable to the ceiling structure.  However the other option is mounting to the wall with the supplied mounting brackets.  The speaker weight is right at 100lbs.  The wall constructions is metal studs with sheetrock. One either option the speaker will be within 2' of the wall.   The only concern is balls hitting the speaker.  I'm just curious as to which would be a better option for this speaker?  I've seen photos of the CBT 70J mounted on gym walls.  Just not sure if it's the safest option.  I've attached a Photoshop representation of where the speaker will go in the gym.  If mounting to the wall I thought about either having a unistrut option or anchoring some 3/4 birch plywood to the studs and using a toggle bolt option for the mounts.  If using unistrut it would need ot be like an 'I' formation.  The horizontal unistrut would be anchored to the studs and the vertical would be two parallel runs to anchor both wall brackets. Each mount has 6 M8 holes for mounting for a total of 12.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2018, 12:42:24 am »

Standard disclaimer: I am not a rigging engineer, nor am I a structural engineer. What I am about to say is not based on ANY load calculations, but is pure conjecture.

My gut reaction is that metal studs are NOT designed to support significant point loading. Maybe you could get away with toggle bolts, if they go through the flange of the stud. (I don't know though. Like I said, I'm not an engineer.) Either way, I'd be leery of mounting that weight to the studs. A possible alternative would be a backing plate on the opposite side of the wall, sandwiching the wall between the backing plate and the speaker mount with through bolts. Of course, that depends on what's on the other side of the wall.

If it was a wood stud wall, or a concrete wall, the advice would be different.

I think you have the potential for a cleaner installation with proper rigging from the ceiling structure (assuming the ceiling structure has been engineered or cleared by a structural engineer to support the weight).

As for errant balls, does that speaker have the option of a durable metal grille?
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2018, 12:58:41 am »

Standard disclaimer: I am not a rigging engineer, nor am I a structural engineer. What I am about to say is not based on ANY load calculations, but is pure conjecture.

My gut reaction is that metal studs are NOT designed to support significant point loading. Maybe you could get away with toggle bolts, if they go through the flange of the stud. (I don't know though. Like I said, I'm not an engineer.) Either way, I'd be leery of mounting that weight to the studs. A possible alternative would be a backing plate on the opposite side of the wall, sandwiching the wall between the backing plate and the speaker mount with through bolts. Of course, that depends on what's on the other side of the wall.

If it was a wood stud wall, or a concrete wall, the advice would be different.

I think you have the potential for a cleaner installation with proper rigging from the ceiling structure (assuming the ceiling structure has been engineered or cleared by a structural engineer to support the weight).

As for errant balls, does that speaker have the option of a durable metal grille?

I had the man who managed our building project to take look at it.  He let his structural engineers look at the mounting and from their indication those 2X6 metal studs would be sufficient to hold that weight.  I'm anchoring a 3/4 Ply to the wall stretched over 3 studs.  The studs on that wall are a heavier gauge as well.  I will at the very least have one row of fasteners dead center of the stud.   For safety sake I may also have a safety cable properly rigged to the ceiling for added security and peace of mind for everyone else.  I got to thinking about it and realized that I'm going to be also anchoring a 250lb equipment rack to that same wall as well.  Fortunately the lower 8' section of that wall is already 3/4 plywood.  I could do like I originally planned and eliminate the drywall from that section and go 3/4 plywood in it's place.  Then paint it and dress it up around the edges. 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2018, 12:04:11 pm »

  The only concern is balls hitting the speaker.
Remember, in a gym, the loudspeaker ARE the targets for many kids.

They LOVE to see how much damage they can do to them with the balls-----

And if they can knock it loose-they are popular among their friends.

Just something to consider.
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Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Robert Weaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2018, 01:59:11 pm »

Remember, in a gym, the loudspeaker ARE the targets for many kids.

They LOVE to see how much damage they can do to them with the balls-----

And if they can knock it loose-they are popular among their friends.

Just something to consider.

Im not worried about balls hitting it. However the mindset is this speaker is going to have the same thing happen to it that happened to our old particle board Yamahas that got busted. They dont really see the difference between the two even though there is a vast difference. A baseball or golf ball might dent the front grill. Ive seen the CBT 70j speakers mounted in gyms right behind basketball goals. 
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Scott Hibbard

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2018, 07:06:51 pm »

We are going to have a JBL CBT 1000+1000E installed in our gymnasium.  There are two options with one being obviously having the speaker rigged with aircraft cable to the ceiling structure.  However the other option is mounting to the wall with the supplied mounting brackets.  The speaker weight is right at 100lbs.  The wall constructions is metal studs with sheetrock. One either option the speaker will be within 2' of the wall.   The only concern is balls hitting the speaker.  I'm just curious as to which would be a better option for this speaker?  I've seen photos of the CBT 70J mounted on gym walls.  Just not sure if it's the safest option.  I've attached a Photoshop representation of where the speaker will go in the gym.  If mounting to the wall I thought about either having a unistrut option or anchoring some 3/4 birch plywood to the studs and using a toggle bolt option for the mounts.  If using unistrut it would need ot be like an 'I' formation.  The horizontal unistrut would be anchored to the studs and the vertical would be two parallel runs to anchor both wall brackets. Each mount has 6 M8 holes for mounting for a total of 12.

Robert I installed (2) JBL CBT 200la's and subs on the wall of a large gymnasium.  The wall was concrete so I had no issues with structural integrity and also installed a safety cable.  However, I did have custom cages made for them because the speaker grills on the CBT's will not come out on the winning side of a basketball or volleyball coming into contact with it.  The grills for all speakers shown was something like $3k but will protect the speakers for many years to come.

Check pics here
http://scotthibbardaudio.com/projectportfolio/scotchplainsfanwoodhighschoolgym.html

ScottH
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2018, 09:41:27 pm »

Robert I installed (2) JBL CBT 200la's and subs on the wall of a large gymnasium.  The wall was concrete so I had no issues with structural integrity and also installed a safety cable.  However, I did have custom cages made for them because the speaker grills on the CBT's will not come out on the winning side of a basketball or volleyball coming into contact with it.  The grills for all speakers shown was something like $3k but will protect the speakers for many years to come.

Check pics here
http://scotthibbardaudio.com/projectportfolio/scotchplainsfanwoodhighschoolgym.html

ScottH

Thanks for the insight!  I have considered a cage though. The cages you have look awesome! I would definitely be worried with those bracket for the 200LAs.
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Robert Weaver

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Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2018, 09:44:14 pm »

Robert I installed (2) JBL CBT 200la's and subs on the wall of a large gymnasium.  The wall was concrete so I had no issues with structural integrity and also installed a safety cable.  However, I did have custom cages made for them because the speaker grills on the CBT's will not come out on the winning side of a basketball or volleyball coming into contact with it.  The grills for all speakers shown was something like $3k but will protect the speakers for many years to come.

Check pics here
http://scotthibbardaudio.com/projectportfolio/scotchplainsfanwoodhighschoolgym.html

ScottH

What is the GBF like with these?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Mounting JBL CBT 1000 in gymnasium
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2018, 09:44:14 pm »


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