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Author Topic: passive double 18s?  (Read 5867 times)

Spenser Hamilton

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2017, 05:54:06 pm »

Not really a fan of horn paths honestly, I like to be able to see my drivers.

You can literally see the speaker in the horn mouth   8) 8) 8)
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Jim Rutherford

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2017, 09:51:20 pm »

I would love to build speakers, but I too have a fear of losing a finger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mike Spade

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2017, 05:10:17 am »

Yeah, I am sure the funs over.   As I reread my behavior on this thread I have to wonder at what point does it rise to the point of bullying when you beat up the unarmed?

So you admit to having fun being rude to someone and admit your a online bully.

How does that make you feel being a keyboard warrior?

Must make you feel good for you to have continued to do it for this long.

Yakno what else feels good? A hug from a loved one. Should try it sometime.

"You want the simple wrong answer? Build any bass reflex cabinet's plans you can find off the internet and put any 1kw RMS rated driver in the cabinet. You have new subs that can handle 1000w RMS."

Who ever said I wanted this?

None of you guys read a damn thing, then attack me for YOUR missunderstandings like I need to respect the fact you A) don't read and b) can't respond or have a proper conversation with me due to the fact your off having your own conversation instead of joining this one.

When have I ever said I wanted to put a random case and a random sub together? I have stated many times that i did ~NOT~ want to do this and that was my MAIN REASON for wanting a cab+speaker that are already designed for each other. But fuck me cuz I want it already designed to be 1k instead of 3600w or more?

You guys are next level assholes when you refuse to read, yet treat me like ~I~ am the one with the problem who needs to respect your inability to cure your own ignorance?

I get it, you want me to talk about t/s parameters, build my own subs and talk about dbs, spl and hz range.

However that is NOT the subject I brought up, so why derail the conversation, then attack me for not wanting to join an argument about variables that would get us nowhere?

Again I'm trying to find KNOWN MATCHING PAIRS of cabs and speakers.

I'm not trying to reinvent the speaker in software that hasn't evolved in how many years? Have you checked out any of the t/s software? they all suck balls, the only one that even looks half user friendly is the term-pro one but its built for car audio.

I get it, your a bunch of old guys who enjoy running t/s specs through a program with a nonexistant 3d graphics engine and then drawing out crude plans on paper with your measurments, but I'd rather do something more guarenteed to work instead of fucking around as a hobby like you guys. I'm not looking to make this a 2-3 year develupment with multiple builds, I just want something that works, that has already been designed to work as a pair of cab+speaker so I don't need to match a random cab to a random speaker.

I mean for example here you, I can get the drivers for the sb1000's locally, so that looks like a really good choice to me since I'd be able to put the right drivers, in the right case that they are designed for (not slapping random drivers in a random cab like you guys keep going off about, like who even does that? You guys? lol?)

I get it, you guys do this kinda stuff for fun, but you've offered nothing helpful here and only proven that your community widely accepts being rude to people for no reason in some failed attempt to feel superior?

News flash: nothing you guys have said is news to me! I was making the CHOICE to avoid talking about those since it "didn't matter" to me. As in: t/s parameters don't matter if I'm not using a random sub with a random cab and trying to make them work with each other by redesigning the cab to work with that sub.. why would I need t/s parameters if I'm NOT doing that? I don't!

So what this all comes down to you being butt hurt I'm looking for RMS 1k cabs so they easily chain with the rest of my speakers that are 1kw rms? I can ask for whatever I want, you understand that right? I don't need to say "I'm looking for x spl or db or these t/s parameters" if I'm looking for the highest spl/db with lowest hz around 1k rms dual 18 line. Do I want a 3600w sub with two 1800w rms drivers? No! I don't want to spend that kind of MONEY so I am looking for a LOWER WATTAGE AND CHEAPER BUILD. Just cuz you guys seem to think I'm "made of money" and can build a 3600w rms dual 18 sub and under power would be better, doesn't mean thats what I'm looking for. I'm looking for a stackable dual 18 build that doesn't brake the bank, so I can make multiples of them instead of only bieng able to make one or two 3600w rms dual 18s, I could make at least 4 subs like the sb1000's (or ookpik sw218-c whatever you want to call them) for the same price as one eighteen sound manifolded bandpass dual 18. Thats the whole point of the sb1000's is stacking them, thats why I'm even bring'n this up, I'm intending to stack them, or something else, not just make one big super sub that I could rent locally. *shakes my head* But you guys don't ask anything like that, you just insult me, tell me I need to respect you while your being rude as shit to me.

I mean if I wanted to play one sub rules them all I can just rent or finance a m-force with 30 inch cone from funktion one and call it a day.

But thats NOT what I want.

I already have the amps so I'd like to stack a bunch of 18s for close range listening. The goal, ideally would be a 10 foot wide by 4 or 5 foot tall stack to fit in front of the stage. I wouldn't be able to do this if I bought a bunch of high powered eighteen sound drivers, they are like $700+ a pop, over $1400 in drivers plus cases when I can get the sb drivers for example for under $200 locally if I buy them in bulk and the cases use way less materials, I estimate I could build a entire sb1000 cab for less then just the one driver from eighteen sound.

But please keep telling me what is best for me, you obviously know what I want better then I do. You obviously know my variables and why I'm asking this instead of opening to all wattage cabs, right? I mean you must, why else would you have been so fucking rude to me if your not a mind reader and psychic about my choices that are mine to make cuz its my money and my sound system, my time and my materials to do whatever I want with. I have been very clear I don't want to build and BUY higher wattage parts that would quadrupple my build costs, thats one of the reasons why I want them lower wattage so I can stack many of them with my current power amps, in my current line.

You guys not get a hug lately? Missing love in your life? All I'm feeling from you guys is unwarranted negativity and refusal to stay on subject like its some big joke to be rude as shit to me for 4 pages while forcing me to repeat myself about how ignorant you guys are by refusing to read before repeating yourselves or insulting me for no reason.

You can literally see the speaker in the horn mouth   8) 8) 8)

I got some lab 12's and they are loud, they just don't sound as good as my bass reflex subs.

As in you play the two and you can noticably tell that the lab 12's while stupid low and stupid loud, due to the horn path, they change the note so it doesn't sound exactly the same as it was written in the song itself.

I mean this kinda stuff prob doesn't matter to bands ect, but when your playing EDM music it really matters so for this reason I really don't want to use a horn.

Thanks for staying on subject tho and not joining the trolls :)

I would love to build speakers, but I too have a fear of losing a finger


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn dude what is it about that first index finger?

I almost lost the tip off mine one time too, was trying to hold something together while chizzle'n out this last little part, slipped, put the chizzle into the joint of my index finger. Like over ten years ago when I was first becoming a carpenter? Was able to keep the tip but the joint is fucked, I can only bend it about half as much as I could previously, for sure felt lucky that I got to keep it tho.

Its one of those things tho if your aware of whats around you, keep your area clean and don't take any stupid risks, have your safty equipment then there isn't really much to go wrong if your making sure your fingers never get near your table saw.

I suspect that at this point, having sneered at virtually everyone who has responded to your posts it might be time to try another forum and avoid insulting the forum members there if anyone calls you out on the merits of copying other people's intellectual property. Maybe try leading with a question that goes directly to existing open designs or such.

After 25 years their intellectual property is open to be used by anyone.

Your talking like I'm speaking of current todays models... the sw-1000 was built and designed in 1988 lol! The eighteen sound builds are free to be used by anyone. Same with the ookpik sw218-c cab that looks alot like a pair of sb1000's. I've contacted eaw directly asking them about the orginal sb1000 plans as well since its discontinued for their newer models like Z.

So if everything I am doing is either public intellectual property due to being 25+ years old, is public intellectual property due to being offered publicly for free or is something I'm asking direct permission for... Then what leg do you think your standing on by saying that?

Your panties are twisted for zero reason.

But please, continue to tell me off, hop on the bandwaggon with everyone else! Theres room for everyone it seems!

MIke,

1) The video is not really "checking it out", the DIY thread has the information, and actual test results and personal comparisons to other cabinets.
2) The driver is visible in the Keystone if you don't use a grill cloth.
3) The top cabinets need to be delayed by around the path length in any horn loaded system, or the  bass will lack "punch". The Keystone has less distortion than a bass reflex for a given output, though since on average it puts out 6 dB more SPL, it has slightly more distortion when driven to full output.
4) With a pair of Keystones you can feel bass at 100 feet 6 dB louder than with a pair of BR cabinets, or the same as four BR cabinets using twice the power.

Bandpass cabinets can approach the sensitivity of a horn over their limited bandwidth, but will "change the way the note sounds from how its written in the actual bit of music" a lot more, the rapid phase change at the BP is less forgiving in crossover alignment than any other design.

I was in the process of building six Keystone B-Low (they will be flat to below the low B, 31 Hz, the standard Keystone rolls off below 36 Hz) when hurricane Irma hit and knocked out power, been running my freezer for the last week on solar power, only have enough juice to power up the cable modem to get on line once a day.

It is frustrating, bought the plywood last year just before hurricane Matthew, took until last week to get time to start the build, then no power again just after finishing cutting all the parts, and rounding all the corners. I probably would have finished testing a pair by now if not dealing with Irma.

Cheers,
Art

Some good points you brought up here.

Hightlights one of my main concerns about the manifolded bandpass cab, is like you said, bandpass can approach the sensitivity of a horn.

So I guess my question should be if the manifolded part does anything about that? I've been reading forums about it and people ~who are not me~ have been quoted on calling the sb1000 basicly a br cab when it has the front side circle ports along with the center port.

You have any experience with the sb's?

I wish I have access to them locally so I could hear them locally, but I can't find any in bc that I can rent or go check out at a install.

And yes I agree I didn't look too deeply into the design you suggested, the video, again your correct, doesn't show much, but what it did show me was that it was a horn.. and with all my experience mixing horns on EDM I know I don't want them due to the delay and how they sound different. Meaning when I scratch on my system I need it to be accurate and not lagging or else what I'm doing doesn't line up with the music and it sounds sloppy. I've argued up and down with other sound techs about you being able to hear or being able to tell the delay (mainly with folks who have their whole system on a delay) but its just simply something I don't want to deal with, from a scratch dj's perspective, its a nightmare dealing with it so thats the reason why I'm so automatically verse the idea of horns.

Sorry to hear about you being in the eye of the storm too, thats murphys law tho that your time being open to building speakers lines up with this. It'll be over soon tho and you'll have those speakers together in no time, you seem dedicated!

Also: thanks for not being rude to me. Its okay to disagree, (in fact thats how alot of great discussions happen) but its not okay to be rude like the majority of people here.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 06:15:47 am by Mike Spade »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2017, 06:23:12 am »

RMS 1k cabs so they easily chain with the rest of my speakers that are 1kw rms?

I am not going to respond to the whole diatribe but the above above quote shows you know nothing about what you are doing.  We are trying to save you a bunch of trouble.  Power rating is meaningless and it certainly doesn't provide any indication that a cabinet will mate well with another.  Ivan already tried to explain RMS to you.

Quote
Old guys that do this for a hobby
[/quote']

One of the easiest ways to look ignorant in life is to not know who you are talking to.  Not noticing someone's signature is even more criminal.

I am old, and by no means an expert in acoustics.  I do own a production company and have been involved in audio and production for the better part of 4 decades.  I still have much to learn.

Ivan, is a senior engineer at Danley Labs, if you don't know who they are perhaps you should look them up.  They design and manufacture some very high quality, well thought out and innovate loudspeaker systems.

Art Welter has been in the production business for who knows how long,  worked with many artists you have heard of and designed some really interesting subs and tops.  His woodworking and joinery skills are off the hook.  I am blessed to own some tops he built, they are works of art.

Everyone here is trying to help, we read your posts, they are for the most part incoherent. 

As Nathan pointed out (BTW Nathan is not old, but he is a very good listener and a hard working young man, got that one wrong too.  What he is is respected because he shows a genuine desire to learn and isn't a dick) you can learn quite a bit here, but you have to toss your emotional attachments and preconceived notions in the trash can by the door.

So someone probably can point you to an existing design that will work OK with the powering requirement you specified.  What they won't do is work with the cabinets you already own. 

There you have it.

 
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Mike Spade

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2017, 06:38:25 am »

I am not going to respond to the whole diatribe but the above above quote shows you know nothing about what you are doing.  We are trying to save you a bunch of trouble.



I'm not going to respond to you but the above shows you can't speak proper english and your human relations skills are sub zero.

I'm not one of your fan boys and its fucking amusing that your having a ego trip right now like I need to know who you are.

I don't need to know anyone that is willing to joke around about being rude to someone for no reason.

Why don't you just go away? I mean your not bring'n anything constructive here and I obviously don't like you or how your handling this entire situation.. So your here just to troll me? Great. Glad we cleared up who you actually are: a troll.

I am formally requesting that you stop harassing me.

We have nothing more to say to each other since you've degraded the conversation to the point where nether one of us are willing to listen to each other, anything you type out will be for your own eyes only and won't be responded to. I bid you good day sir.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 06:48:44 am by Mike Spade »
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2017, 07:03:52 am »


I'm not trying to reinvent the speaker in software that hasn't evolved in how many years? Have you checked out any of the t/s software? they all suck balls, the only one that even looks half user friendly is the term-pro one but its built for car audio.

I get it, your a bunch of old guys who enjoy running t/s specs through a program with a nonexistant 3d graphics engine and then drawing out crude plans on paper with your measurments, but I'd rather do something more guarenteed to work instead of fucking around as a hobby like you guys. I'm not looking to make this a 2-3 year develupment with multiple builds, I just want something that works, that has already been designed to work as a pair of cab+speaker so I don't need to match a random cab to a random speaker.


Okay, first up, go and learn Hornresp. Short of Akabak (which I haven't attempted yet - the learning curve is legendary), it's about the best speaker simulator out there.

I happen to be 23, so I don't think I'm particularly old. That said, I do build my own cabinets.
With a good 15" in a smallish box (440x440x650mm), I can get around 125dB from 40Hz up to 150Hz with 1KW input, and that's with sine wave testing. None of the usual industry "Peak SPL" crap (a pet hate of mine).

With four of them, I did this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXuV-Cl0hmI
Which was 85dBC-slow at 260 feet from the stacks. 103dB peaks, once you do the calculations for that particular passage of music.
I'm happy to share the design if you like. It's freely available on another forum, where there's lots of collaboration with some other forum members, with some tweaking of the designs and plans until we got something that works really well.

For what it's worth, the whole point of this forum is that none of us "fuck around".

Chris
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2017, 11:10:58 am »

I'm not going to respond to you but the above shows you can't speak proper english and your human relations skills are sub zero.

I'm not one of your fan boys and its fucking amusing that your having a ego trip right now like I need to know who you are.

I don't need to know anyone that is willing to joke around about being rude to someone for no reason.

Why don't you just go away? I mean your not bring'n anything constructive here and I obviously don't like you or how your handling this entire situation.. So your here just to troll me? Great. Glad we cleared up who you actually are: a troll.

I am formally requesting that you stop harassing me.

We have nothing more to say to each other since you've degraded the conversation to the point where nether one of us are willing to listen to each other, anything you type out will be for your own eyes only and won't be responded to. I bid you good day sir.

As we used to say in UseNet, PLONK.

Iggy bin with you.
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut
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