ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: passive double 18s?  (Read 7721 times)

Mike Spade

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2017, 06:31:58 pm »

If you think that a cabinet is just "divided by a piece of wood" then clearly you have no idea what goes into engineering the cabinets you mentioned, especially something as complex as an SB1000, which a joinery expert, given a sample and a whole lot of time, would be challenged to replicate.  You basically will have a pile of shit, instead of a system that works.

BTW mentioning a watts value with the system you operate (is that input, output, heat dissipated) to a roomful of audio professionals is a great method to remove all doubt you have no clue what you are doing.

Why don't you try taking a deep breath and start all over again.

? I need to take a deep breath cuz you guys are completely avoiding what I wish to talk about and attacking me for not going into details about my sound system cuz its off-subject?

I left out the details of my sound system for a reason, to avoid this conversation and you guys derailing the conversation, but here I am, making my 2nd post off-subject confirming what is obvious to everybody cuz you guys need to drive that point home for some reason?

Yes obviously I didn't put details in for a reason, I'm not here to talk about my sound system, so why is that a subject you guys can't see past when requesting to talk about speaker cabs?

I mean not a single one of you has mentioned any cab designs or given me any suggestions on what might be cool to build from proven plans with the speakers that are designed to go with them.

All I'm seeing here is you guys trying to find ways to tell me I'm wrong for subjects I've been trying to refuse to talk about.. but hey sure, lets derail this even more, when I made a post talking about speaker designs, who would've thought I wanted to talk about speakers instead of argue about power ratings?

How would you like to argue about power ratings today while agreeing with everyone here including myself for one big circle jerk?

I get it tho, your not a carpenter, that doesn't mean I'm not. I can easily build these cabs, you might not be able to, but I can.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 06:36:06 pm by Mike Spade »
Logged

Mike Spade

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 06:40:04 pm »

What this guy does in 15 mins is beyond anything you guys are able to do? Honestly?

Do you just not have the tools, or what is stopping you guys? What makes this design complex? I don't see it.

Just cuz your not a carpenter doesn't mean I'm not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ9hoTbLGY4&t=193s
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5892
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2017, 07:03:00 pm »

? I need to take a deep breath cuz you guys are completely avoiding what I wish to talk about and attacking me for not going into details about my sound system cuz its off-subject?

I left out the details of my sound system for a reason, to avoid this conversation and you guys derailing the conversation, but here I am, making my 2nd post off-subject confirming what is obvious to everybody cuz you guys need to drive that point home for some reason?

Yes obviously I didn't put details in for a reason, I'm not here to talk about my sound system, so why is that a subject you guys can't see past when requesting to talk about speaker cabs?

I mean not a single one of you has mentioned any cab designs or given me any suggestions on what might be cool to build from proven plans with the speakers that are designed to go with them.

All I'm seeing here is you guys trying to find ways to tell me I'm wrong for subjects I've been trying to refuse to talk about.. but hey sure, lets derail this even more, when I made a post talking about speaker designs, who would've thought I wanted to talk about speakers instead of argue about power ratings?

How would you like to argue about power ratings today while agreeing with everyone here including myself for one big circle jerk?

I get it tho, your not a carpenter, that doesn't mean I'm not. I can easily build these cabs, you might not be able to, but I can.

Debating with you is worthless, if not amusing.  Go read your first post, you didn't ask any question.

Anybody that uses "cuz" can't be taken seriously?

What does a video of a factory assembly line have to do with anything you are discussing?

If you are trying to discuss the relative merits of different cabinets you need to phrase your questions better.  "1000 watts rms" is kind of an amplifier specification, could be a speaker power handling question, absolutely has nothing to do with the output characteristics of the cabinet.

You have never really asked a question that can be answered, you seem to want to have a nebulous discussion of emotional validation.  That's not going to happen and as long as you keep going on the tact you are taking nothing but ridicule will be the result.

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Mike Spade

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2017, 08:03:32 pm »

Debating with you is worthless, if not amusing.  Go read your first post, you didn't ask any question.

Anybody that uses "cuz" can't be taken seriously?

What does a video of a factory assembly line have to do with anything you are discussing?

If you are trying to discuss the relative merits of different cabinets you need to phrase your questions better.  "1000 watts rms" is kind of an amplifier specification, could be a speaker power handling question, absolutely has nothing to do with the output characteristics of the cabinet.

You have never really asked a question that can be answered, you seem to want to have a nebulous discussion of emotional validation.  That's not going to happen and as long as you keep going on the tact you are taking nothing but ridicule will be the result.

Oh theres your missunderstanding right there.

Nobody is talking about the amp. Nobody is talking about possible speaker handling. Nobody is talking about characteristics of the cabinet, cuz thats not the subject I'm bring'n up. So why would I talk about subjects I'm not bring'n up, just to amuse you? Seems counter-productive.

You must be aware that speakers, when finished, have a RMS rating right? For example my sw-1000's have a RMS rating of 1000watts.

I'm looking for other speakers that have a common RMS rating of 1000 watts, once built, meaning the final product is made with two 500w rms subwoofers to give a total of 1000 rms power rating ON THE COMPLETED SPEAKER ITSELF.

What part of that is confusing to you? The fact I'm refusing to talk about anything else so you focus on the question instead of getting derailed, is THAT the part?

"I am looking for dual 18 speaker design plans that are ~around~ RMS 1k watts, something ~like~ the sw-1000 or eaw sb1000 or the tlf28 would be nice, however I am open to other suggestions. I need to somehow form this into a question now or you guys will ignore it so.... Can you guys show me plans of something like this that is known to work and tested already or suggest another set of plans?"

I added this, just for you.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 08:07:34 pm by Mike Spade »
Logged

Mike Spade

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2017, 08:10:34 pm »

"What does a video of a factory assembly line have to do with anything you are discussing?"

It has to do with this...

"you have no idea what goes into engineering the cabinets you mentioned, especially something as complex as an SB1000, which a joinery expert, given a sample and a whole lot of time, would be challenged to replicate.  You basically will have a pile of shit, instead of a system that works."

more exactly, this point:

"would be challenged to replicate."

I don't agree, it looks very simple to replicate to me, I've already built more complex things.

I get it tho, your not a carpenter, that doesn't mean I'm not. I can easily build these cabs, you might not be able to, but I can.
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5892
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 08:12:28 pm »

Oh theres your missunderstanding right there.

Nobody is talking about the amp. Nobody is talking about possible speaker handling. Nobody is talking about characteristics of the cabinet, cuz thats not the subject I'm bring'n up. So why would I talk about subjects I'm not bring'n up, just to amuse you? Seems counter-productive.

You must be aware that speakers, when finished, have a RMS rating right? For example my sw-1000's have a RMS rating of 1000watts.

I'm looking for other speakers that have a common RMS rating of 1000 watts, once built, meaning the final product is made with two 500w rms subwoofers to give a total of 1000 rms power rating ON THE COMPLETED SPEAKER ITSELF.

What part of that is confusing to you? The fact I'm refusing to talk about anything else so you focus on the question instead of getting derailed, is THAT the part?

"I am looking for dual 18 speaker design plans that are ~around~ RMS 1k watts, something ~like~ the sw-1000 or eaw sb1000 or the tlf28 would be nice, however I am open to other suggestions. I need to somehow form this into a question now or you guys will ignore it so.... Can you guys show me plans of something like this that is known to work and tested already or suggest another set of plans?"

I added this, just for you.

You didn't say that nor does it matter.  Even if that was the proper way to look at a speaker's power rating, it's meaningless.  Besides are you talking, peak or long term and at what frequency? 

Driver selection and cabinet design are very complex subjects and you are not asking the right questions or showing a desire to learn.
Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Mike Spade

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 08:15:11 pm »

You didn't say that nor does it matter.  Even if that was the proper way to look at a speaker's power rating, it's meaningless.  Besides are you talking, peak or long term and at what frequency? 

Driver selection and cabinet design are very complex subjects and you are not asking the right questions or showing a desire to learn.

Do you not know what RMS is?

Its not peak.

Its not continuous.

Its its own rating.

RMS Power Ratings: The RMS power rating is the measure of continuous power that an amplifier can output, or a speaker can handle. RMS power is derived from Root Mean Square which is a statistical measurement of the magnitude of a varying quantity and is applied to voltage or current.

I didn't come here to educate you on something you didn't know about btw, I stated I wanted that so I could easily chain them into the rest of my sound system without having to deal with different power ratings, I could chain them off the same amps I'm already using for my 1000w rms cabs (thats not peak or continuous for those who cant read)
Logged

Mike Spade

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2017, 08:18:03 pm »

"Driver selection and cabinet design are very complex subjects and you are not asking the right questions or showing a desire to learn."

Thanks for noticing!

Your 100% right, I am NOT trying to select a driver and cabinet out of a hat and magically match them together.

I am looking for an already built, already designed, already engineered pair of cab+speaker.

If you could read, you would know this.

So why would I "show a desire to learn" when I am being clear I don't want to re-design the speaker?

To be clear, I'm aware of what it takes to design a speaker with t/s parameters, I just simply don't think I can do a better job then the professionals or already tested, edited and rebuilt speakers that others have proven to work.

Why waste a bunch of time and money making a design nobody has made before in software I'm not sure will work as well as the software says it will? Seems foolish to me since I am not starting a sound company and I'm not trying to sell these, why would I try to invent my own instead of using what is known to work ?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 08:21:29 pm by Mike Spade »
Logged

Jeremy Young

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 451
  • Audio Production: Live Concerts & Special Events
    • Brown Bear Sound
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2017, 09:43:10 pm »

Hi Mike,

Years ago, I worked for a very good sound tech who was quite good with woodwork and speaker re-coning.  His A-rig consisted of 100% home-built cabinets.  The subwoofers were based loosely on the JBL SR4719X (http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/SR-X%20Series/SR4719X.pdf) using some drivers he bought in bulk from china and then subsequently re-coned himself using JBL kits.  The primary difference in cabinet design was that he reversed the height and depth dimensions so they were a little lower than the JBL design.  We ran them (4-ohm per cabinet) stereo on Crest CA9's for amplification and coated them with truck-bed-liner. 

The tops were loosely based on the dimensions of an EV QRX115/75 except they used 15" JBL (actual JBL) mids and BMS coax horns and had different handles.  The rig was tri-amped and he came up with the DBX Driverack settings himself. 

He did blow drivers under what I would consider "normal" conditions, so I don't know whether it was to do with his settings or the particular combination of driver/cabinet, or if it was a failure of his re-cone customization.  He customized my EVM12L guitar speakers and got rid of the shrill-ness, but his approaches were more "guess and test" than the type of engineering that is possible today in a speaker manufacturing lab.

The design for the tops was sent to a CNC shop to cut all the panels in volume (made 16 at once) and then he painstakingly assembled them himself.  It was a lot of work (unpaid time) for him to build it all, and in the end it was tough for him to get it earning for him.

He has passed away now, and I believe all of that gear is in a bowling alley somewhere now.  After he passed, it was hard to get more than the component value second-hand from anyone for the gear, which was unfortunate for the family he left behind.  Whenever he tried to book shows with "well known" touring acts, he had to try very hard for the tour manager to accept his equipment since it wasn't a "known value" that they were accustomed to.  Sometimes they bit, sometimes they went to another provider.

He was lucky in that he had an excellent ear, so he made great mixes on just about anything, and could tune fairly well without anything but his voice and an SM58, but knowing what I know today I can tell you that there was a lot of room for improvement in the sound of the rig.  Also, cross-renting to other providers was nearly impossible, nor could we supplement our rig from theirs if needed, which can be important if you live in a geographically isolated area like me.

Where I'm going with this, is that when it came time for me to "get back in the game" and acquire my own hire-rig, I elected to buy pre-built equipment with known performance values and customer support.    I have found this to be very helpful in booking shows, finding replacement parts, and being able to contact the manufacturers of the "systems" (cabinet and drivers) for advice on amplifier selection, crossover points, limiter settings, etc.  I have spent considerable money, but would do it all over again if I had to.  If I break my back tomorrow, I know I can at least get a reasonable return on my gear second-hand if it comes to that.  YMMV.


As for the legal implications of what he did with others' designs, I can't speak to that but there are many on these forums who are more experienced with those sorts of copyright issues.

I'm no cabinet builder myself (I have an irrational fear of losing a finger on a saw and only ever being able to play Black Sabbath guitar riffs for the rest of my life). What is it that you didn't like about the 18-sound cabinet designs?  Have you seen the B&C cabinet designs?  http://www.bcspeakers.com/resources/suggested-designs/

Logged
Brown Bear Sound
Victoria BC Canada
High Efficiency - High Fidelity - High Portability

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9007
  • Atlanta GA
Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2017, 10:21:30 pm »



Alternatively if you know of some other design I'm not looking at that is rated around 1k rms watts then I'd be interested in checking it out,
If you want "watts, then buy a toaster.

What you SHOULD be looking at is overall output and SPL and distortion.

THOSE are the important thing, NOT about how many "watts" you can throw at it.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: passive double 18s?
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2017, 10:21:30 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.056 seconds with 23 queries.