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Author Topic: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.  (Read 7840 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2017, 01:42:26 pm »

I still don't..
JR

I am going to make a Visio 1 line and post it to further explain.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2017, 05:05:25 pm »

I am going to make a Visio 1 line and post it to further explain.
Here is the drawing

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2017, 07:25:08 pm »

Here is the drawing

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
I hope you didn't spend much time on that because it tells me squat...

JR
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2017, 08:00:05 pm »

I hope you didn't spend much time on that because it tells me squat...

JR

No about 10 minutes but they say a picture is 1000 words. What part is confusing?

I ran a dedicated outlet from the breaker panel (load center) to my home office for the UPS.  It was wired backwards.  It was not picked up for years until I ran an extension cord down to power the plasma during a power outage and the laptop plugged into the non-reversed outlet was destroyed.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
River Delta Audio is now:

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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2017, 10:15:17 pm »

Did the outlet have an RPBG-did you bootleg the ground?  I assume not-but honestly, that is the only way I see this going "boom"?  Unless the UPS bonds things-but that shouldn't happen either.

How did the chassis of the plasma become energized?  Just looking for the path?  Perhaps a cap from "neutral" to ground-either in the plasma or UPS?

Not attacking-just trying to learn and understand what happened.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #35 on: September 22, 2017, 12:59:14 am »

Did the outlet have an RPBG-did you bootleg the ground?  I assume not-but honestly, that is the only way I see this going "boom"?  Unless the UPS bonds things-but that shouldn't happen either.

How did the chassis of the plasma become energized?  Just looking for the path?  Perhaps a cap from "neutral" to ground-either in the plasma or UPS?

Not attacking-just trying to learn and understand what happened.

No attack at all, I was surprised myself.  The only symptom prior to this issue was I had about 40v between the shield of the cable entering the house and the cable modem in my office, it had no current and did not arc when connecting so I did not think much of it at the time.

The TV had a 3 wire IEC C14 inlet. 

I plugged in the laptop to an outlet on the wall and the signal cable to the TV.  I didn't want to connect the plasma to the generator direct so I ran an extension cord (3 wire) to the UPS.  As soon as I plugged it in the laptop popped.  The laptop was connect direct to the generator via the normal house wiring (the generator was feeding the main panel). 

The UPS is connected to an outlet with BX home run to the main panel.  I found the input to that outlet in the work box had the hot and neutral reversed.

That's the whole story.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2017, 09:48:18 am »


I plugged in the laptop to an outlet on the wall and the signal cable to the TV.  I didn't want to connect the plasma to the generator direct so I ran an extension cord (3 wire) to the UPS.  As soon as I plugged it in the laptop popped.  The laptop was connect direct to the generator via the normal house wiring (the generator was feeding the main panel). 

I guess it's synchronicity or irony or some other type of happy coincidence, but there's a similar discussion going on at http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,164891.0.html. One of my RV readers claims that his Tripp-Lite RV 12-volt inverter/converter can be damaged by a reversed hot/neutral. Say's there some sort of protection diodes on the 120-volt line input that will blow up, and this cost him $1,000 for find out. I'm not sure I believe this and I haven't had time to talk to Tripp-Lite directly for a conversation and a schematic, but sure sounds similar, doesn't it.

I do have another RV reader who blew up an LED/Television doing something similar to what you did with a hot-neutral swap. He's at least at electronics tech level and detailed what he discovered about the fail. I'll find his contact info and see if I can loop him into this discussion.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 04:38:19 pm by Mike Sokol »
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2017, 09:56:51 am »

No attack at all, I was surprised myself.  The only symptom prior to this issue was I had about 40v between the shield of the cable entering the house and the cable modem in my office, it had no current and did not arc when connecting so I did not think much of it at the time.

The TV had a 3 wire IEC C14 inlet. 

I plugged in the laptop to an outlet on the wall and the signal cable to the TV.  I didn't want to connect the plasma to the generator direct so I ran an extension cord (3 wire) to the UPS.  As soon as I plugged it in the laptop popped.  The laptop was connect direct to the generator via the normal house wiring (the generator was feeding the main panel). 
Is the generator wiring solid?  Extension cord, UPS?
Quote
The UPS is connected to an outlet with BX home run to the main panel.  I found the input to that outlet in the work box had the hot and neutral reversed.
Line and neutral reversed should not cause any drama from properly designed equipment. Line and neutral are single insulated from safety grounded (3 wire plug) chassis, and double insulated from 2 wire plug chassis.
Quote
That's the whole story.
Perhaps a ground got energized. Easy enough to find with NCVT. You say the TV is 3 wire line cord, so should not have a stinger cap to fail.

JR

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2017, 04:18:51 pm »

Is the generator wiring solid?  Extension cord, UPS? Line and neutral reversed should not cause any drama from properly designed equipment. Line and neutral are single insulated from safety grounded (3 wire plug) chassis, and double insulated from 2 wire plug chassis. Perhaps a ground got energized. Easy enough to find with NCVT. You say the TV is 3 wire line cord, so should not have a stinger cap to fail.

JR

Generator wiring is 10/4 SOOW to an inlet connector and xfer switch.  The junk generator is long gone now too and replaced with an Onan that can run the whole house.

The rest of this was 11 years ago.  Was just sharing a story about the consequences of reversed NG in proximity to normal.   

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2017, 04:51:43 pm »

And the reverse polarity receptacle?
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Steve Swaffer

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Right or Wrong? New building has receptacles with Hot and Neutral reversed.
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2017, 04:51:43 pm »


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