Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Scott Holtzman]

They do indeed, and previously on my Mackie mixer, I tried DI boxes and raised the gain to decent signal level, and it didn't matter.

Now using Allen and Heath mixer, I have not tried DI's yet but I did just order an in-line pad, we'll see if that does anything.

You are taking the beating pretty well.  I have followed this closely and it seems you have made all the right moves.  The fact it takes awhile to occur without gain changes is an odd data point.  Some of the more experienced have chosen to discard it as impossible.

For a moment let's assume the input signal characteristics are in now way changing over time.

Does music played through the mixer do the same thing?  What happens if you reduce the output gain?  Can you recreate this at your shop or home?

Let's for a moment assume the mixer is somehow presenting a load to the speakers it doesn't like.  Unlikely with the high impedance but let's go with it for a moment.  If the input section was overheating something along these lines may happen.  If you turn the speaker off, wait 10 minutes does the time to crackling reset? 

We need more data.

Remember the sign above my desk "in God we trust, all others bring data"

[Wesley David]

The input gain setting is what determines mic level or line level. What do you have it set at? Have you tried the headphone test?

This is not what Sweetwater reps told me. Their tech team said typically for Line array speaker units, the XLR mic input is expecting a Mic-level source, whereas the 1/4 inch can be Line.

But, here's the kicker, I have ALREADY tried 1/4 inch balanced and unbalanced from the corresponding out on a Mixer, no change. It's not like we're blasting the volume either. Just +10 on the IP2000 input gain, and 0 dBu Master. Not terribly loud, and nowhere near its top setting.

We used a rig like this with HK elements, an even cheaper and less well known line array years ago, my buddy had it. No issues. Clear sound. No distortion, small Mackie mixer. 

[Scott Holtzman]

This is not what Sweetwater reps told me. Their tech team said typically for Line array speaker units, the XLR mic input is expecting a Mic-level source, whereas the 1/4 inch can be Line.

But, here's the kicker, I have ALREADY tried 1/4 inch balanced and unbalanced from the corresponding out on a Mixer, no change. It's not like we're blasting the volume either. Just +10 on the IP2000 input gain, and 0 dBu Master. Not terribly loud, and nowhere near its top setting.

We used a rig like this with HK elements, an even cheaper and less well known line array years ago, my buddy had it. No issues. Clear sound. No distortion, small Mackie mixer.

I like the HK Elements.  Our partner production company has a literal assload of HK Actor,  just when you think they are not going to go out much here they are on side fill data with an 80's singer you may have heard of: 

https://www.facebook.com/ProShowCleveland/videos/1571708379569205/

In fact if you had the 835's I would get them back!

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

This is not what Sweetwater reps told me. Their tech team said typically for Line array speaker units, the XLR mic input is expecting a Mic-level source, whereas the 1/4 inch can be Line.

But, here's the kicker, I have ALREADY tried 1/4 inch balanced and unbalanced from the corresponding out on a Mixer, no change. It's not like we're blasting the volume either. Just +10 on the IP2000 input gain, and 0 dBu Master. Not terribly loud, and nowhere near its top setting.

We used a rig like this with HK elements, an even cheaper and less well known line array years ago, my buddy had it. No issues. Clear sound. No distortion, small Mackie mixer.

Wes...

The sad fact remains that even if you follow the instructions in THE MANUAL, the iP stuff is crap.  Give it up, get your money back if you can and get a couple of S.O.S.

[Wesley David]

I like the HK Elements.  Our partner production company has a literal assload of HK Actor,  just when you think they are not going to go out much here they are on side fill data with an 80's singer you may have heard of: 

https://www.facebook.com/ProShowCleveland/videos/1571708379569205/

In fact if you had the 835's I would get them back!

You know your line array's sir! It was a decent system, very portable.

I'm not sure if I will keep the IP2000 or not, even if I can find a solution to all this. The odd thing is, as an amateur, I do see it's power amp rating is 1000 watts. Even if it's not capable of near that number, I would still think it's powerful enough for what we do without issues. So this has surprised me.

Open to any and all suggestions. Trying DI boxes again, plus in-line pad for the Mixer. Is it plausible to keep the Mixer's master volume faders at far, far below Unity gain, and then jack the input gain on the IP2000 speaker? Would that be preferable to being at Unity on the Mixer and then having little to no headroom on the IP2000?

[Wesley David]

Wes...

The sad fact remains that even if you follow the instructions in THE MANUAL, the iP stuff is crap.  Give it up, get your money back if you can and get a couple of S.O.S.

I appreciate your two cents, believe me, I share this opinion, LOL. It does a number of things I like though, I feel like I did with my old 'band van' that it's become an investment....if I can find a solution.

The sound quality for streaming music over Bluetooth is excellent. Pretty good bass. 

But I need to find a way to drive the unit, a little, via a Mixer with no clipping or distortion. I'm definitely not clipping at the Mixer level, that I can tell. I am open to suggestions if you have any.

Recommendation on traditional speakers otherwise? Leaning towards EV or QSC

[Scott Holtzman]

You know your line array's sir! It was a decent system, very portable.

I'm not sure if I will keep the IP2000 or not, even if I can find a solution to all this. The odd thing is, as an amateur, I do see it's power amp rating is 1000 watts. Even if it's not capable of near that number, I would still think it's powerful enough for what we do without issues. So this has surprised me.

Open to any and all suggestions. Trying DI boxes again, plus in-line pad for the Mixer. Is it plausible to keep the Mixer's master volume faders at far, far below Unity gain, and then jack the input gain on the IP2000 speaker? Would that be preferable to being at Unity on the Mixer and then having little to no headroom on the IP2000?

Don't go to extremes,   Try bring the master fader back 6db (on it's scale) below unity then bring the input gain up on the TS's until they are just starting to limit (do they have a limit light)? 

You didn't answer my questions regarding the time and reset results.

[Mike Caldwell]

Did you ever listen to the mixer with headphones to see what it sounds like at that point?
Granted to headphone out pick off point is a stage or two before the mixers final output but at least it will tell you what the source coming into the mixer sounds like.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

The sound quality for streaming music over Bluetooth is excellent.

No, it's not. 

[Chris Grimshaw]

My understanding is you're running instruments into a desk and then out to a Turbosound IP2000 that may or may not be expecting mic-level inputs on its XLRs.

Being methodical for a moment...
1 - PFL each input at the desk. What do the meters show? Any clipping? If not, proceed to the next step.
2 - AFL the desk main out. What do the meters show? Any clipping? If not, proceed to the next step.
3 - Look at the input levels on the IP2000. You might need an iPad or something. Are the inputs clipping? If not, proceed to the next step.
4 - What do the master levels on the IP2000 show? Any clipping/limiting?

What do all of your EQ settings look like? Is there a big pile of boost somewhere that might cause things to overload?

Once we've established that nothing in the chain is being driven into the red by user error, we can consider that something in the chain isn't working correctly.

The fact that the behaviour appears to change after 10 minutes is very odd. Is there anything at all that happens that seems to cause the change? Keyboardist messing with the output volume and/or changing patch..?

Chris

[ProSoundWeb Community]