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Making a plan for a lighting upgrade
Jeremy Young:
--- Quote from: Jeff Lelko on September 07, 2017, 10:39:35 AM ---Hi Jeremy,
There are a number of ways you can go about this depending on what you need right now and what can wait, and where the money should be spent. The nice thing about lighting is that there is no "set" way of doing things. While some techniques are more industry-standard than others, it's easier to shoehorn things on lighting than it is for sound, at least in my experience.
The first thing you'll need to settle on is a controller. This is a mandatory purchase and I think you're going to want to tackle this now - Luminair has numerous limitations, especially for moving lights. As you might already know, controllers currently come in two flavors - a standard "hardware" console and those that run on a PC or laptop, with or without a "wing" to give some hands-on control. Martin's M-PC with an M-Touch is one of the cheapest ways to get a capable control solution that can grow with you. ChamSys's MagicQ is another popular software controller, though the cost of their wings and accessories is a little bit higher. I used MagicQ PC for nearly a decade before growing to a dedicated hardware console. Decent hardware boards will set you back several thousand, so a buy once cry once kind of thing, but if done right it'll last you a long while. You just have to decided how much of your budget you want to allocate to a board. Personally, I find it better allocation of money to buy a board you can grow into versus buying fixtures you can grow into.
Regarding everything else, you have a multitude of options with reasonable flexibility. I've done pre-rigged and pre-hung truss before. It can definitely save time if done correctly, but at the same time box truss can be a bit much for a single operator to handle if you try anything much beyond a totem. Transportation logistics also increase when moving carts of box truss. ST-132s, T-bars, and I-beam style truss is much more manageable at least to me, plus you can always grow to box truss if needed.
Fixtures are another variable that can really be all over the place. I agree with John that you need to get your front wash taken care of first. I personally do my washes with halogen pars and supplement as needed with my 700w discharge CMY moving washes. Getting back to what you're looking for, it's really a case of you get what you pay for. The cost of LED Pars is all over the spectrum. In my personal opinion, front wash acceptable LED lights don't really run under $500/ea. and go up from there. This would be your Elation SixPar and Fuze Series as well as the Chauvet Colorado Solo Series and similar. The questions is...is the higher cost of even these types of fixtures really worth it when compared to a conventional fixture or a more budget option such as a SlimPar Pro? For what it's worth I've never had a major problem with non-IP-65 fixtures in rain, but one storm can change that and everyone is different. If outdoors is a regular thing I'd consider it, but for 2-2.5 the price of a non-IP-65 equivalent? Tough choice, and one I'll need to make sooner or later when I buy a few dozen of the latest-generation LED Pars... Granted they should last longer as they're sealed for dust as well, but with the pace this market keeps evolving I'm not sure I'd want to sign up to a fixture purchase that'll take a few seasons to make back. If you business model supports it then go for it, otherwise sometimes being cheap and minimal is the best idea from a business perspective. Instead, spend the cash on something with more longevity to it such as a console. Flip side, the S4s, S4 Pars, and the like aren't going anywhere this decade. That's a more future-proof purchase right now versus the latest and greatest LED...which will be superseded next year by something "better". Just my opinion though.
Zoom is nice to have as well but for a little bit more you can have a moving wash, which to me has been a much more useful tool. At least with the direction my rig continues to evolve - go cheap with the generic eye-candy Pars, get something decent (either halogen or higher end LED) for overall front wash and strong facial light, and add a few moving zoomable washes for your "specials" and other effects. Just remember that while LED is usually lower wattage than halogen, it's not negligible! Best of luck!
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I was hoping you'd chime in Jeff. I've learned a lot from your posts on here. Having no movers, i hadn't yet run into the limitations on Luminair so that's good to know upfront. I didn't mention it, but i do own a Chauvet Obey 40, but I'll do some more research on the consoles you've suggested. I like faders and knobs over touchscreens most days, so I can see where having my own controller (even if i cross rent fixtures occasionally) would be helpful so I'm familiar with the layout/programming.
I could see Truss getting out of hand quickly for a one-person operation, good to know it's not a mandatory thing. I like the look of staggered height totems behind the band, but really works best with some good moving spots on top (which i don't have). I currently keep my Dotz Pars pre-wired on t-bars (daisy chain power and DMX with a terminator at the end) and it works pretty well but it still tough to transport safely. They are too long to fit in any of my road cases and although the fixtures have rubber feet on them, it doesn't sit solidly and has to sit on top of everything else in the van. Might start getting serious about rigging up some suspension points in the the roof of the van. My hope was truss could do some "protecting" too, but the added weight and complexity of making sure the mounting works for stored versus gigging configurations seems to be asking too much.
LED pars ARE all over the place. Man, talk about paralysis by analysis. The cheaper they are, the more scant they are with photometric data. Makes comparison hard without a demo or a reliable user review, especially with the typically short lifecycle of these products. I don't do a lot of outdoor gigs now, but there are a lot in my area and once this is my full-time thing again I will be faced with surprise showers. Good to know about your experiences, but I may just play it safe and go IP65 anyway. *sigh* it's only money right? Front wash will get regular use, so the ROI once up and running should be reasonable. Should be.... that's why i kept going back to the idea of conventional lighting. Most bang (lumens) for your buck, excellent staying power. I know they'll look good on camera and people's faces. Speaking generally of course, but it seems like I can get similar output from LED fixtures at a third the wattage of conventional, at triple the cost.
Moving zoom wash makes a lot of sense to me, but also feels a little gimmicky (well sorry, spot would be more gimmicky) for me to buy four now with no other intelligent lighting and some moderately bright upstage fixtures....? I can see the value and flexibility though. Maybe gimmicky isn't the right word. I worked in an audio/lighting repair shop and we worked on a lot of dusty chinese movers from clubs that were always having issues. More moving parts, more maintenance, more careful packing... still gotta think more on that.
Thanks for taking the time.
Jeremy Young:
--- Quote from: Nate Zifra on September 07, 2017, 12:48:51 PM ---Glad to see some activity again here on the lighting forum!
As a mostly single operator, I can appreciate where you are coming from. I love good lighting, it makes such a difference. However, what I find is the setup and tear down times it adds doesn't always allow for what I am able to setup. As a result, I have truss that is rarely used, and some fixtures that remain in the trailer.
What always comes out of the trailer is front lighting. I use the warm white/cold white Cob fixtures, a pair per side. They are perfect for front lighting. The only complaint I get is typically from the performers, as they are very bright when looking directly at them. I may look into some type of diffuser for them, but I digress. I have no complaints, and can choose to operate them on dmx for dimming or blackout, or just standalone in a pinch. They also make excellent work lights for cleaning up in the dark.
In place of the truss up stage, I find it the quickest to have LED pars prewired on t-bars. Usually I use two tbars, but sometimes three total if it is a wider stage. While pars only can seem boring, I think chases are often overlooked by a lot of beginners. Most seem to go for the color wash fade, but some simple varying chases with each par dimming (pulsing) or completely on/off can add a lot of movement to your static lights. Program some of these chases, use a program that allows you to change the speed, and maybe add some bump buttons for all on, or full white for some some quasi blinder action. You can also vary your chases by using different colors instead of having all the pars the same color.
My T-bars for upstage have 4 prewired LED Pars, and then for those events I can use haze, I have some small 60 watt moving head spots I attach, two per T-bar. It doesn't take too long to throw them up, add power and dmx.
To start, I agree with what was mentioned. Get your front lighting sorted first, find a controller like M-Touch that lets you expand to the future. For now, continue to use your COB's for upstage, but consider programing some chases. Then you can decide how you want to proceed, you could expand your existing inventory of Cobs for larger stages, and look into added some portable movers.
Hope my experience helps you.
--- End quote ---
Thanks for the input Nate! As a single operator, your experiences are extremely valuable to me. I was afraid of exactly what you describe, truss that collects dust. I already struggle with setup time with my basic lighting and (not so basic) audio rig. Which COB fixtures are you using? Regarding the complaints about brightness, how much higher than head level do you typically mount them?
Yes worklights for load out ! Now we're talking multi-use! Been there, done that, killed the van battery with headlights once while wrapping cables. Try finding someone to give you a jump start in the middle of nowhere at 3am! haha, I digress.
A third t-bar of ADJ Dotz Pars wouldn't set me back terribly and would add to their flexibility as uplights for larger corporate spaces. I'll definitely play around with chases more. This is the kind of stuff I was hoping to hear. I've seen a lot of "movement" come from fixed lights that were well-programmed so I'll experiment more with that and my existing inventory.
Thanks for the thoughts!
Just writing out my original post was a good exercise in clarifying a lot of the thoughts and emotions I had bouncing around in my head. It's good to get some supportive feedback that I'm thinking in the right direction.
John Fruits:
Another thought for going with tungsten lighting for your front light. Instead of using ERS (leko) spots, go with the classic fresnel. In the US the frequent street price for the Altman 65Q is right at $50. Gives you adjustable beam spread, no framing shutters like an ERS but you can use barndoors. You can also use gels, for instance a very light cool from one side and a very light warm from the other. That gives more depth.
EDIT: Oh yeah that price is for used.
Jeff Lelko:
--- Quote from: Jeremy Young on September 07, 2017, 08:26:22 PM ---
I was hoping you'd chime in Jeff. I've learned a lot from your posts on here. Having no movers, i hadn't yet run into the limitations on Luminair so that's good to know upfront. I didn't mention it, but i do own a Chauvet Obey 40, but I'll do some more research on the consoles you've suggested. I like faders and knobs over touchscreens most days, so I can see where having my own controller (even if i cross rent fixtures occasionally) would be helpful so I'm familiar with the layout/programming.
--- End quote ---
Glad I've been able to help you! Luminair is one of those products that has a great niche with many happy users, several of which are frequent posters here. Like everything though, it has its limits, and unfortunately once you get past the basic bar or small club rig you hit them pretty quickly. Unfortunately I wouldn't peg your Obey 40 any higher... It's an okay mini board for basic use, but it can be tricky to program and is still quite limited. If you're really looking to get into lighting design as a service you're going to want a more capable controller. Either M-PC or MagicQ PC with a basic Enttec interface will run rings around what you currently have for near pocket change. You also won't be held back or limited by what your controller can do, so as you buy or rent fixtures down the road you'll be able to use them to their full potential. Even since buying my Congo Kid a few years ago I still haven't reached its full potential, and that's really how I think you want it. I get what you mean about wanting faders and knobs - I'm much the same way. See what you think about PC wings such as the M-Touch. I personally struggle with the touch pads, but a lot of people like it and it's one of the cheapest options out there. As far as strictly hardware consoles go, an Elation Show Designer might be worth a look. ETC's ColorSource Series is nice too, but be sure you understand their limitations. Lots to think about, but I'd strongly consider making a new controller "Purchase #1" and growing from there.
--- Quote from: Jeremy Young on September 07, 2017, 08:26:22 PM ---I could see Truss getting out of hand quickly for a one-person operation, good to know it's not a mandatory thing. I like the look of staggered height totems behind the band, but really works best with some good moving spots on top (which i don't have). I currently keep my Dotz Pars pre-wired on t-bars (daisy chain power and DMX with a terminator at the end) and it works pretty well but it still tough to transport safely. They are too long to fit in any of my road cases and although the fixtures have rubber feet on them, it doesn't sit solidly and has to sit on top of everything else in the van. Might start getting serious about rigging up some suspension points in the the roof of the van. My hope was truss could do some "protecting" too, but the added weight and complexity of making sure the mounting works for stored versus gigging configurations seems to be asking too much.
--- End quote ---
If all you want are strictly totems, there are some lighter duty truss options out there that might work and are a little more manageable. Another option is something like the Global Truss Glow Totem (link). These break down flat so they're extremely easy and compact to transport. Seeing as you operate out of a van I can say first hand that there's a very finite amount of 12" box truss that you can fit in one, especially if you have other gear to haul too!
One consideration that might be a dealbreaker to your pre-rigged box truss is the truss's lacing. Oftentimes 12" box is so compact that the lacing prohibits most light fixtures from swinging into it for transport. It'll work for very small fixtures, but something like a Fuze fixture almost certainly won't fit through the lacing. 16" box truss is a little more accommodating of this as is truss that only has lacing on two sides. I've see touring truss that can retract arena-sized moving lights into it without unplugging a single cable! Very impressive. Just more things to think about. If you stick with the simple T-bar idea, there are ways to build a "meat rack" style of case that can hold several pre-rigged bars all securely yet ready to deploy. Dave Bednarski posted this a while back and is a great example of how it can be done.
--- Quote from: Jeremy Young on September 07, 2017, 08:26:22 PM ---LED pars ARE all over the place. Man, talk about paralysis by analysis. The cheaper they are, the more scant they are with photometric data. Makes comparison hard without a demo or a reliable user review, especially with the typically short lifecycle of these products. I don't do a lot of outdoor gigs now, but there are a lot in my area and once this is my full-time thing again I will be faced with surprise showers. Good to know about your experiences, but I may just play it safe and go IP65 anyway. *sigh* it's only money right? Front wash will get regular use, so the ROI once up and running should be reasonable. Should be.... that's why i kept going back to the idea of conventional lighting. Most bang (lumens) for your buck, excellent staying power. I know they'll look good on camera and people's faces. Speaking generally of course, but it seems like I can get similar output from LED fixtures at a third the wattage of conventional, at triple the cost.
Moving zoom wash makes a lot of sense to me, but also feels a little gimmicky (well sorry, spot would be more gimmicky) for me to buy four now with no other intelligent lighting and some moderately bright upstage fixtures....? I can see the value and flexibility though. Maybe gimmicky isn't the right word. I worked in an audio/lighting repair shop and we worked on a lot of dusty chinese movers from clubs that were always having issues. More moving parts, more maintenance, more careful packing... still gotta think more on that.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, it's a tough decision on the quality versus quantity versus overall investment price. Some members here have had excellent luck with the sub-$100 fixtures, even for facial light. When you can buy a whole rig of Generic Chinese lights for the cost of 1 or 2 name brand lights it really makes you think for a second. Some of the questions I'd consider are whether you ever plan to cross-rent (i.e. is brand pedigree important), how important is fixture reliability, and will your work end up being filmed for broadcast? If these things aren't really issues to you, I'd suggest looking to the lower end of the spectrum - either Generic Chinese or the fixtures in the $150-$300 bracket. I've had decent luck with everything from the $15 ebay lights to SlimPar Pros if you use them within their intended application. If you do need to operate at a higher reliability and performance I'd agree with spending the extra cash on the IP65 variants and getting something a little higher end, such as a Fuze fixture. One interesting side note about overall quality, IP65 rating, and "professional" performance is that a few hundred SlimPars, COLORdashes, and Nexus fixtures were used on American Ninja Warrior (link). Maybe not what you'd expect to see, but apparently it worked for them!
Moving washes are a nice tool, but they're only a tool like everything else and it's up to the designer on how to best utilize them to achieve the vision. Just because it's a moving light doesn't mean you need to have it scanning around the venue in "disco mode". The reason I like moving washes is because they're extremely easy to aim and can be re-purposed many times over during the course of a typical show. Static lights, with or without a motorized zoom still need to be aimed manually. When hung way up off the deck this can be a rather tedious and time consuming process. Not a huge deal in theater-world when a show might run for a few weeks, but when you're traveling on a daily basis it can be a pain. With your moving washes, just hang and lift. Once at show height you aim and focus from the comfort of your light board, usually just by updating a few focus and beam palettes - that's it! I wouldn't say that all your front light has to come from moving washes, but it's a good way to speed up focusing and to get numerous positions hit from a single fixture. I still use a mix of moving and static lights for front wash.
You do touch on a good point though - moving lights mean moving parts, so repairs and maintenance will be something to consider. It's just up to you to decide on which battles you want to fight! At least with movers you can do truss totems the way you want, and then also have the ability to repurpose the lights when needing a bit more wash from the front.
Hope all this helps!
Steve Garris:
--- Quote from: Jeremy Young on September 07, 2017, 08:26:22 PM ---
I currently keep my Dotz Pars pre-wired on t-bars (daisy chain power and DMX with a terminator at the end) and it works pretty well but it still tough to transport safely. They are too long to fit in any of my road cases and although the fixtures have rubber feet on them, it doesn't sit solidly and has to sit on top of everything else in the van.
--- End quote ---
How long are the light bars? I have 4-light bars that I place in Keyboard bags for transport. It works great IMO.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/road-runner-keyboard-bag/j23228000002004?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CjwKCAjw_8jNBRB-EiwA96Yp1jZ8m_pfzCqQSuivtgS3dhGwS5vT1wUr5cYfu4sCGaoj0oTvtFrKVBoCiroQAvD_BwE&kwid=productads-adid^156727059247-device^c-plaid^62390521681-sku^J23228000002004@ADL4MF-adType^PLA
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