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Author Topic: Which Ethercon?  (Read 3211 times)

Thomas Dameron

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Which Ethercon?
« on: August 27, 2017, 05:28:08 pm »

For those of you building network patch panels for portable use, which ethercon connector are you using?  I'm building a few racks for Yamaha/Dante rigs with Cisco SG switches.  For this kind of application I haven't seen a compelling reason to go with anything shielded or cat6.  My client already has a decent inventory of unshielded Duracat, so unless someone has other experience I didn't see any reason to suggest a different course for them.  These will only go with these Yamaha rigs, so I'm not concerned with any Midas/Behringer/Digico compatibility. 

Anyway, for the patch panel I was planning on using the NE8FDV connectors with an internal punch down.  I din't really want to do a feed through because it seems less like an extra point of failure.  All of these panels will have a lacing bar, so everything will be tidy and secure as possible.

Thoughts?  Comments?

Mods, feel free to move this to console connectivity if you think that's more appropriate.

thomas d.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2017, 11:16:43 pm »

You may want a patch panel with those connectors in it just for audio runs to that panel, but, there no reason to make a special panel using those connectors for the LAN itself. More expense not needed.

The NE8 connectors/shell can be adapted to almost any quality RJ-45. The ground is not the ruggedized shell of the NE8 itself. So, if you feel that you will be re-patching the RJ-45 panel(s) frequently the use of a ruggedized jack/receptacle may be warranted, but other than that, no need for the extra cash spent.
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Thomas Dameron

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2017, 07:07:46 am »

You may want a patch panel with those connectors in it just for audio runs to that panel, but, there no reason to make a special panel using those connectors for the LAN itself. More expense not needed.

The NE8 connectors/shell can be adapted to almost any quality RJ-45. The ground is not the ruggedized shell of the NE8 itself. So, if you feel that you will be re-patching the RJ-45 panel(s) frequently the use of a ruggedized jack/receptacle may be warranted, but other than that, no need for the extra cash spent.

Bob,

I may not have been clear on the intent of my panel.  I'm creating a patch panel with 6 pairs of primary/secondary locking ethercons in order to convert a pair of switches to a locking connector.  All other gear uses locking ethercons and all cabling has ethercons. 

Which model of panel mount ethercon are people using?

thomas d.
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Dave Bednarski

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2017, 08:53:07 am »

I am using about a dozen NE8FDX-P6-B across the board for similar application, no issues across console or mixed data/ethernet traffic.  The feed thru side is well built and solid construction vs. the cheaper models with the exposed circuit board.
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Bryan Hargrave

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2017, 09:20:37 am »

Hey Thomas,

I built an SG rack with 2 10's in it. Redundant and Secondary. 20 feed through connectors because I feel like a crimped connection locked in place is better than some punch downs out in the rugged world. I am probably worried about nothing. A little expensive but I don't have to take off connector shells anymore. I used unshielded cable because the only things in the whole world that require it are some MADI or AES50 snakes (not even all of either)... which don't pass through this since they are point to point. My switches are for control and dante.

For those of you building network patch panels for portable use, which ethercon connector are you using?  I'm building a few racks for Yamaha/Dante rigs with Cisco SG switches.  For this kind of application I haven't seen a compelling reason to go with anything shielded or cat6.  My client already has a decent inventory of unshielded Duracat, so unless someone has other experience I didn't see any reason to suggest a different course for them.  These will only go with these Yamaha rigs, so I'm not concerned with any Midas/Behringer/Digico compatibility. 

Anyway, for the patch panel I was planning on using the NE8FDV connectors with an internal punch down.  I din't really want to do a feed through because it seems less like an extra point of failure.  All of these panels will have a lacing bar, so everything will be tidy and secure as possible.

Thoughts?  Comments?

Mods, feel free to move this to console connectivity if you think that's more appropriate.

thomas d.
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Brian Ingwell

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2017, 11:06:15 am »

Hi Thomas,

I'm with Bryan on this.  We've built several racks with SG switches to Ethercon patch panels.  On the first one, we we're originally going to go with punch down Ethercons, but after wiring up a few we just didn't feel like they would hold up bouncing around in a truck, so we swapped them out for the RJ45 feed through type.  With those, you can maintain the twist of the cable better and after about 4 years of solid use, we've had zero issues.

We also use unshielded cable from Link for Dante and control with no issues.

Just one person's experience.  YMMV.

Cheers,
Brian
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 11:52:35 am »

Anyway, for the patch panel I was planning on using the NE8FDV connectors with an internal punch down.  I din't really want to do a feed through because it seems less like an extra point of failure.  All of these panels will have a lacing bar, so everything will be tidy and secure as possible.

Thoughts?  Comments?

While either should be fine, I've seen more issues with punched down terminations than I have with crimped RJ45's and passthrough connection.  The advantage of using the RJ45 connection is that if something goes wrong or you change out gear, it's easier to just plug a new patch cable in if needed instead of messing around re-punching the connection.

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Brian Jojade

Rick Earl

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 04:55:30 pm »

I am using about a dozen NE8FDX-P6-B across the board for similar application, no issues across console or mixed data/ethernet traffic.  The feed thru side is well built and solid construction vs. the cheaper models with the exposed circuit board.

+1
We end up having a huge network for some events, devices over 1/2 a mile away, and there have been no issues from using these connectors, it also make re-configuring the racks easier. Our IT folks put sniffers on the line and can look at quality, not a single issue with any of our racks.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2017, 11:01:16 pm »

While either should be fine, I've seen more issues with punched down terminations than I have with crimped RJ45's and passthrough connection.  The advantage of using the RJ45 connection is that if something goes wrong or you change out gear, it's easier to just plug a new patch cable in if needed instead of messing around re-punching the connection.



Thanks for the clarification Thomas. For mobile audio use Brian's advice would be best to follow. Quality components will be the key to success.
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Thomas Dameron

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2017, 08:22:28 am »

Thanks for the input everybody, super helpful.  Good to hear from you Bryan!  Let me know next time you're in town.

Does anyone think theres an advantage to using the cat6 NE8FDX-P6 over the cat5 NE8FDP?  None of the other cabling will be cat6.  On one hand, the cat6 variant seems to be a one piece metal construction that looks a bit more robust.  On the other hand, assuming I build the panels well and strain relief everything correctly, I can't see how PCB on the cat5 version would come apart once it's assembled.  To me it's more a matter of the cat5 version has been the same for 10 years or whatever, and the cat6 is newer so perhaps Neutrik has learned a few tricks along the way.

thomas d.
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James Cotton

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2017, 10:46:43 am »

Does anyone think theres an advantage to using the cat6 NE8FDX-P6 over the cat5 NE8FDP?

It all depends on how much movement goes on in the back of your racks.
If you're in there often and for example coiling up a power cable and stuffing it in the back then the PCBs on the older CAT5 connections are a bit fragile.
I've lost a couple due to them taking an impact in transit from something loose in the back of the rack, PCB torn away from the connector.
I think the soldered connections were still fine but the anchors from connector shell to board had gone, they got swapped out once that had happened.

If your racks don't see much change or movement inside they'll be fine.

NE8FPDs are plenty rugged from the outside but the new CAT6 ones are much better at the back.
They're the only Neutrik brand connector I've had that has been damaged in any way in over 30 years (and I must have thousands of various types).
If it weren't for the cost I'd swap out all of my NE8FDPs for NE8FDX-P6s just on ruggedness grounds.
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frank kayser

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2017, 03:58:16 pm »

Probably stating the obvious, but it caught me out.
Cat5e and Cat6 individual conductors are of different wire size...
Cat 5e uses 24-26 AWG wire, while cat6 uses 22-24 AWG wire.
I could not reliably crimp Cat5e cable in a RJ45 designed for Cat6 (high quality connectors)
I can't tell you how many connectors I wasted until I looked it up... D'Oh!
Bought the connector package labeled Cat5e han have not had a bad crimp since.
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Thomas Dameron

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 05:00:46 pm »

Probably stating the obvious, but it caught me out.
Cat5e and Cat6 individual conductors are of different wire size...
Cat 5e uses 24-26 AWG wire, while cat6 uses 22-24 AWG wire.
I could not reliably crimp Cat5e cable in a RJ45 designed for Cat6 (high quality connectors)
I can't tell you how many connectors I wasted until I looked it up... D'Oh!
Bought the connector package labeled Cat5e han have not had a bad crimp since.

Thanks Frank, that's a good point.  For me, if I decide to use cat6 panel mounts it would be strictly for the feedthrough variant.  I'm pretty squarely convinced that the punch downs aren't right for my application.

thomas d.
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Bob Vaughan

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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2017, 04:49:00 am »

Having spent the last 5 weeks auditing and repairing a bunch of classroom A/V system upgrades, each of which includes a pair of wall plates with Cat5 (110 punchdown) and Cat6a (IDC) types, I can safely say that I would NEVER spec any punchdown or IDC type Ethercon for ANY application, until they completely redesign the (virtually nonexistent) strain reliefs. We are reinforcing them with ty-wraps, but we still bite our nails every time we have to open or close a wall plate. We have had to replace several of the cat5 types as we are having trouble getting a good connection on the 110 blocks using industry standard punchdown tools.

Using anything other than a feedthru type Ethercon in a portable application is just begging for trouble.
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Re: Which Ethercon?
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2017, 04:49:00 am »


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