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Author Topic: Yamaha Digital console Clock??  (Read 9532 times)

Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2017, 10:06:24 pm »

There are a few instances in which having an external clock is necessary. Those are; when you have multiple pieces of digital equipment that are connected together and need to be synced but you don't have enough clock output ports on the main piece of equipment. Or, if you are trying to sync to time code for a broadcast or video playback set up.

Just connecting your Yamaha console to an external clock because some moron on the internet said that Yamaha consoles sound better when you use some other super expensive boutique clock; isn't going to actually affect the sound at all. Those are usually the guys that tell you that you have to "burn in" your cables or speakers or freeze your cables, or use some super expensive oxygen free platinum plated gold cables to make your SM58 sound like a Neumann U89.

Don't drink the Kool-aid.


Also, it should be stated that if you are using a Yamaha console on a Dante network, then you should be synced to the clock signal coming from the Dante network. (Which I guess would technically count as an outboard clock.)
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 10:22:00 pm by Justice C. Bigler »
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Frederik Rosenkjær

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2017, 05:13:24 pm »

The science is clear: An external clock is very very unlikely to improve audio quality, and more likely to degrade it in stead (as the built-in crystal clock is most likely more accurate than the PLL).
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2017, 05:28:34 pm »

The science is clear: An external clock is very very unlikely to improve audio quality, and more likely to degrade it in stead (as the built-in crystal clock is most likely more accurate than the PLL).

My short rant -

Clocks do not do a fucking thing to "improve" audio.  Period.  End of story.  Anyone who THINKS they do should be removed from any position of audio authority when they are unable to explain, scientifically, how this would happen.

I've watched Dave Rat's videos on U-tube and the one thing he never does is explain how a square wave pulse that keeps all the bits in line can affect audio - clocking is a binary thing, it either works or it fails, but it doesn't affect the tonality of audio in any positive way.  Don't get me wrong, I like Dave and have worked with him a couple decades ago (he probably wouldn't remember me), but he's barked up the wrong tree with his o'scope videos... sure we can see clock jitter and imperfect square waves... but tell me HOW making those square waves prettier makes for "better" sound.  Reading Ken Pohlman's books on digital audio and it will become apparent that clocking NEVER enters the audio chain, EVER.

The Placebo-foo and resulting confirmation bias is incredibly strong.

For Al, if you want a clock to make folks happy get the Black Lion clock.  It won't do a damn thing for the audio (and with Dante, it's pointless as Dante needs to be the clocking source) but you'll have it.  Any BE that insists on a better clock can either bring it with or you can rent it in and bill the promoter for it.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2017, 05:35:23 pm »

My short rant -

Clocks do not do a fucking thing to "improve" audio.  Period.  End of story.  Anyone who THINKS they do should be removed from any position of audio authority when they are unable to explain, scientifically, how this would happen.

I've watched Dave Rat's videos on U-tube and the one thing he never does is explain how a square wave pulse that keeps all the bits in line can affect audio - clocking is a binary thing, it either works or it fails, but it doesn't affect the tonality of audio in any positive way.  Don't get me wrong, I like Dave and have worked with him a couple decades ago (he probably wouldn't remember me), but he's barked up the wrong tree with his o'scope videos... sure we can see clock jitter and imperfect square waves... but tell me HOW making those square waves prettier makes for "better" sound.  Reading Ken Pohlman's books on digital audio and it will become apparent that clocking NEVER enters the audio chain, EVER.

The Placebo-foo and resulting confirmation bias is incredibly strong.

For Al, if you want a clock to make folks happy get the Black Lion clock.  It won't do a damn thing for the audio (and with Dante, it's pointless as Dante needs to be the clocking source) but you'll have it.  Any BE that insists on a better clock can either bring it with or you can rent it in and bill the promoter for it.
I love it when you guys talk digital..... 8)  (my work here is almost done.)

JR
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Andrew Broughton

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2017, 01:50:32 am »

In case you missed my earlier post, this topic comes up again and again (and now again). The best info is in those earlier discussions, there's nothing new to add.
http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/topic,145925.0.html
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Peter Morris

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2017, 03:26:19 am »

I love it when you guys talk digital..... 8)  (my work here is almost done.)

JR

We can all relax; Big Ben has been silenced from noon on August 21 until 2021 for urgent repair work, after which I’m sure the sound will improve.

... and no JR ... your work is not almost done  ::)

@ Tim ... to be  fair to Dave Rat he did say "Why the Yamaha console would have such a crappy square wave generator clock baffles me but that said, we have proved nothing because we were not able to prove that the ugly Yamaha MC7L clock signal actually changes the sound for the worse. Plus we are not sure yet that the Yamaha PM5D clock is as odd looking as the MC7L.



 http://www.wired.co.uk/article/big-ben-clock-silence-chime-2017
« Last Edit: August 28, 2017, 05:02:41 am by Peter Morris »
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Robert Lofgren

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2017, 03:59:34 am »

Has there been some device that had a crappy internal clock and that was helped by some external clocking that got this myth started?

Has anyone tried to build a crappy external clock to see what actually happens when you try to alter different parameters?
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2017, 08:19:10 am »

@ Tim ... to be  fair to Dave Rat he did say "Why the Yamaha console would have such a crappy square wave generator clock baffles me but that said, we have proved nothing because we were not able to prove that the ugly Yamaha MC7L clock signal actually changes the sound for the worse. Plus we are not sure yet that the Yamaha PM5D clock is as odd looking as the MC7L.

As I recall they goofed up the test - the M7CL clock wasn't terminated or something when they measured it.
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Peter Morris

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2017, 09:56:53 am »

As I recall they goofed up the test - the M7CL clock wasn't terminated or something when they measured it.

That would make sense looking at the waveforms. From what I can understand the M7 & LS9 were reportedly the only desks that anyone really (?) calmed to have heard a difference ... although many people used external clocks on other consoles.

The M7 and LS9 are getting a bit old now so it’s all a bit moot  :) ... All of the new boards sound great in 2017.
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Roland Clarke

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Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2017, 12:10:20 pm »

External clocks are and always were snake oil.  I was saying this 10 years ago.  For a high tech industry, I've never ceased to be amazed at how much "pseudo science" is spoken by people who should know better.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Yamaha Digital console Clock??
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2017, 12:10:20 pm »


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