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[kel mcguire]

Respectfully disagree.  When we upgraded from Presonus Studio Live to the Si Expression the difference in sound quality was startling. - same speakers at FOH ...  Not louder, not more throw...  simply more hifi, open and transparent.

I'm not familiar with recording on the Expression. If you could take a pick point right off the preamp, that'd be a better comparison. Then you'd know what contribution the preamp and A/D actually makes.

Making a direct comparison in a working event environment is less irrefutably scientific. Sure, one has the same speakers perhaps in the same venue. Is it the same act, same mics? Are you literally swapping out mixers? You would hope that your ears make similar mix decisions and then the tools onboard react in a familiar fashion to your choices. My opinion is that there are too many things that factor into the product being "more hi-fi, open or transparent" so it's difficult to assess where those gestalt differences are coming from: work flow, channel EQ, dynamics, mix buss. Show to show, even with the same mixer, doesn't one experience those same differing impressions? I do.

I'm not disputing what you felt & heard, as I have experienced similar impressions. But I've not really done a side by side more scientific test. I'm not sure what that might be? Perhaps the same band, set gains and outputs as close as possible between two or more mixers. No channel strips or master EQs engaged. Just push up faders...what do you hear? Then go about EQ'ing, engaging dynamics. Now what?

I guess the bottom line is if you feel your mixes are always better on the  brand ____ mixer, then they are..

Anyhow just some musings on the topic

[Mal Brown]

So I'm a musician first, sound guy second - though from an activity and revenue stand point the inverse is more true today...  I have pretty good ears.  I listen critically.  Whether it is the preamps or the sum of the parts - the SI Expression kicks ass in the sound quality department. 

[Stephen Kirby]

In terms of recording off the Expression it only records off the master buss in stereo.  You can take off from the individual channels post eq and FX with an optional IO card.

As to hearing differences.  Years ago I had to go out of town and sub out a gig with a corporate band I played with.  At the same time the leaders Mackie took a dump, so I loaned them my A&H GL24.  Band leader set it up and mixed from the stage as he typically did.  When I got back everyone in the band told me there could hear a difference, from on stage.  These were people with no audio pretensions.  Musicians who could care less about the gear.  The leader got his Mackie fixed but relegated it to rehearsals and went out and bought an A&H.  Again, not a gear head, just the lead singer and bandleader.  He heard enough of a difference in sound quality to break open his less than fat wallet and upgrade the band's board.

[Bob Leonard]

In terms of recording off the Expression it only records off the master buss in stereo.  You can take off from the individual channels post eq and FX with an optional IO card.

You lost me on that one Steve.

I record through the MADI/USB board combo card in my Performer and can record 64 channels if needed. So I suppose what your saying is that without any option card you can only record from the main BUS?

There are many, many options for routing output available on a per channel basis, plus not counting the main output there are an additional 14 physical outputs on the back of the board that could be used to route to an A/D converter if that is the route you choose to go.

Currently my MADI/USB has been brought back to default since the acquisition of a 32 channel stage box courtesy of my friend Steve Hurt. It works flawlessly, and I now have 32 channels for recording to Cubase, an additional 32 channels of input (48 total), and a total of 22 outputs for the Performer 1. Not too shabby for a rack mounted board. Something I never dreamed of even 10-15 years ago, let alone in 1965.

[Scott Bolt]

In terms of recording off the Expression it only records off the master buss in stereo.  You can take off from the individual channels post eq and FX with an optional IO card.

As to hearing differences.  Years ago I had to go out of town and sub out a gig with a corporate band I played with.  At the same time the leaders Mackie took a dump, so I loaned them my A&H GL24.  Band leader set it up and mixed from the stage as he typically did.  When I got back everyone in the band told me there could hear a difference, from on stage.  These were people with no audio pretensions.  Musicians who could care less about the gear.  The leader got his Mackie fixed but relegated it to rehearsals and went out and bought an A&H.  Again, not a gear head, just the lead singer and bandleader.  He heard enough of a difference in sound quality to break open his less than fat wallet and upgrade the band's board.

Beyond debate.  I agree.

In the case of MI level Mackie mixers and a GL24, there may well be a difference in even the preamp quality.  There is certainly a difference in the sonic quality overall (I have also heard this in a direct A/B comparison using a Mackie VLZ and an A&H MixWiz myself).

The current crop of digital mixers that I have heard all have comparable sound quality.  Note that I have not heard the latest Presonus mixer, so I can't comment on those at this time.  I can say that the older versions lacked in sound quality compared to all the current MI digital mixers.

I have not had the chance to compare any of the MI digital mixers to very high end mixers for a sound quality comparison though.  It would be interesting to me to see (as an example) how an X32 sounds side-by-side with a Midas Pro series mixer or Digico SD9.

So if money were truly not an issue, how much better would a very high end mixer sound in a live setting?

All I can vouch for is that all of the current crop of MI mixers are quite capable of creating an excellent mix out front as long as the talent is good and the person behind the board knows what they are doing.

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