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Author Topic: Upgrade suggestions  (Read 11532 times)

Steve Crump

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2017, 07:16:51 pm »

Can you offer a subjective opinion of the 212's vs. the output of two KW181's, EV ETX or JBL PRX (I suspect there are others in this class but those are the only I have experience with).  I am hoping you tell me that single 96 pound box has the output of two 90lb boxes!


I wish I could, but I don't have any personal experience with any of the others that are mentioned. Even the subs I own, the EV EKX 18s, and EV TX1181, I have never used them in this same setting or done a side by side comparison.

What I can offer is this, previously I was using a Yorkville Unity setup for these type local outdoor events prior to purchasing the JTR system. I used the Yorkville setup for 5 years. I was using (4) of the UCS1 subs and based on the size events with no more than 400 in attendance and genres I am doing (Country, Blues Rock and R&B) the Yorkville subs worked great.

The event this past Saturday only had about 200 people show up, the setting was in the street with buildings on both sides the area was 80' x 135' and most people set way back from the stage maybe 60' or more. The most radical music played at intermission was some mild Hip-Hop, had more than enough low end for any of the playback music, actually I was happily surprised, the band was a R&B band as far as the live music reinforcement.
I am using the passive subs and powering (4) of the 212s with (1) Crown MA5000i. Crossing over at 105Hz. I am using the Harmon iPad app to monitor the amps, The amp was running at about 50% input and output levels for most of the night and I had plenty of low end and room for more if needed. I was really impressed. Nice punchy low end perfect for bass guitar, keys, and kick. I did push a little hard on a drum solo and then a bass solo, the system did great and had plenty of room if I needed more. Beyond what I expected.
I center stacked about 2' in front of the stage. I will attach photos someone posted.
I do prefer the 212s as far as the shows I do and my needs over the UCS1s and at this point will use the 212s until my needs change.
I have quit a few retired musicians and one active A1 who come to some of the shows we do and they also offer their opinions, solicited or not, the A1 was really impressed by the JTR system and one of the most passively critical musicians (who does have a good ear in my opinion) that comes to some of the shows was in attendance and he said at least three times, "man you have plenty of low end" 

I may have given more info than requested, but I just wanted you to understand how I am using the equipment.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 07:23:20 pm »


I wish I could, but I don't have any personal experience with any of the others that are mentioned. Even the subs I own, the EV EKX 18s, and EV TX1181, I have never used them in this same setting or done a side by side comparison.

What I can offer is this, previously I was using a Yorkville Unity setup for these type local outdoor events prior to purchasing the JTR system. I used the Yorkville setup for 5 years. I was using (4) of the UCS1 subs and based on the size events with no more than 400 in attendance and genres I am doing (Country, Blues Rock and R&B) the Yorkville subs worked great.

The event this past Saturday only had about 200 people show up, the setting was in the street with buildings on both sides the area was 80' x 135' and most people set way back from the stage maybe 60' or more. The most radical music played at intermission was some mild Hip-Hop, had more than enough low end for any of the playback music, actually I was happily surprised, the band was a R&B band as far as the live music reinforcement.
I am using the passive subs and powering (4) of the 212s with (1) Crown MA5000i. Crossing over at 105Hz. I am using the Harmon iPad app to monitor the amps, The amp was running at about 50% input and output levels for most of the night and I had plenty of low end and room for more if needed. I was really impressed. Nice punchy low end perfect for bass guitar, keys, and kick. I did push a little hard on a drum solo and then a bass solo, the system did great and had plenty of room if I needed more. Beyond what I expected.
I center stacked about 2' in front of the stage. I will attach photos someone posted.
I do prefer the 212s as far as the shows I do and my needs over the UCS1s and at this point will use the 212s until my needs change.
I have quit a few retired musicians and one active A1 who come to some of the shows we do and they also offer their opinions, solicited or not, the A1 was really impressed by the JTR system and one of the most passively critical musicians (who does have a good ear in my opinion) that comes to some of the shows was in attendance and he said at least three times, "man you have plenty of low end" 

I may have given more info than requested, but I just wanted you to understand how I am using the equipment.

No that's great.....Thank's Steve.  Where are you located?  I travel quite a bit for my other vocation.

Do you happen to have a front shot that is not fuzzy or do I just need to clean my glasses (or monitor it is allergy season).
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Steve Crump

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2017, 07:33:48 pm »

No that's great.....Thank's Steve.  Where are you located?  I travel quite a bit for my other vocation.

Do you happen to have a front shot that is not fuzzy or do I just need to clean my glasses (or monitor it is allergy season).


I am in Hartwell, GA. About 100 miles north of Atlanta straight up I-85.

No good shots yet. I am sure my wife took some great shots, but I don't have access to those yet.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2017, 08:04:36 pm »


I am in Hartwell, GA. About 100 miles north of Atlanta straight up I-85.

No good shots yet. I am sure my wife took some great shots, but I don't have access to those yet.

Used to go to lake lanier years ago when I dated a gal that worked for digital equipment in Alpharetta.  You are another 30 minutes up the road?

Look forward to the pics.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Steve Crump

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 08:40:52 pm »

Used to go to lake lanier years ago when I dated a gal that worked for digital equipment in Alpharetta.  You are another 30 minutes up the road?

Look forward to the pics.

About an hour from Lanier. I am a straight shot from ATL. Not as straight from Lanier.
As soon as I get a good photo I will post it.

The 212s are great. The OP seems to be referencing active gear and the JTR Captivators are available as active, but there again I haven't used the active version. Really looking at the original post my post here doesn't seem that valuable because I am stuck on passive equipment, (personal preference). I do think JTR is worth consideration.
I will say I own a couple RCF Evox 8s and based on the performance of those bass bins I would imagine that the lineup of the other RCF subs is great.
 
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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 09:09:27 pm »


If I go RCF on the subs I'd likely lean towards the 8004 or 8005, and go with two. I could likely afford 4 of the 8003 if I spent a little more time getting funds together, which is an option. I was leaning towards the 4 DXS18's or 4 ETX18, because I know I'll need to double the prx718's to get a noticeable difference. From what I've heard and read, both of those are better performing subs, albeit not a quantum leap, than the 718, one on one / head to head. The reason for considering two RCF was budget. I would expect two 8004 or 8005 would also perform better than two 718, but think I'd get a more noticeable increase in sub output by running 4 18's. Since you own the 8004, will 2 outperform 4 decent quality 18's that I've previously mentioned? As for mains, what would be your choice there?

Well, what can i say? I guess 1 8004 is about equal to 1.5 'decent' 18's. But that is not so important. It's the way they sound that makes them special.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 09:11:34 pm »

About an hour from Lanier. I am a straight shot from ATL. Not as straight from Lanier.
As soon as I get a good photo I will post it.

The 212s are great. The OP seems to be referencing active gear and the JTR Captivators are available as active, but there again I haven't used the active version. Really looking at the original post my post here doesn't seem that valuable because I am stuck on passive equipment, (personal preference). I do think JTR is worth consideration.
I will say I own a couple RCF Evox 8s and based on the performance of those bass bins I would imagine that the lineup of the other RCF subs is great.

Yes the 2x18 powered captivators are at an attractive price point.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
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Scott Gentry

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 11:27:35 pm »

Well, what can i say? I guess 1 8004 is about equal to 1.5 'decent' 18's. But that is not so important. It's the way they sound that makes them special.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the sonic differences??? I like bass that is full and rounded, punchy is nice but not at the expense of neglected frequencies in the 40-60 hz range. I'd love to say even a little lower is still important, but I realize getting good response below 40hz is expensive and I can live with some tapering below that point. I still am of the opinion that I will need at least 4 18's to get a measurable output improvement from what I currently have. I did take a look at JTR and the captivator 218 in the powered option certainly caught my eye, as did the orbit shifter pro, but boy if I ever did need to transport them, ouch. Thank you for the feedback, I do appreciate it. I'm hoping to get some feedback from someone who has run 4 DXS18's as well. I know they're bandpass, and that has me a little cautious right now, but most reviews have been quite positive. 2 8004's are definitely an option, I'd like to know how the new 8003 and 8004 compare. I'd have to take a little more time to get the funds for 4 8003's, but at least they'd likely not be changed soon so it's a possibility long term.
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Peter Morris

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2017, 08:52:49 am »

I own RCF 8004's, and i must say i am still very impressed by them, but they are a bit pricy. Maybe the new 8003-as mk2 will work for you? They are around 1500 USD MAP here in Europe, where the 8004 is around 2300 USD MAP.

ETX 18: really not impressed by them, and over here 200 USD more expensive than the 8003 mk2. I haven't heard the 8003 mk2 yet, but if they are anything like the 8004 you will be happy.

FWIW - the 8004 is excellent, the 8003 MK1 was very ordinary and I have not heard that the 8003MK2 is a huge improvement ... I would check them out first.
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Scott Gentry

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 11:42:26 am »

FWIW - the 8004 is excellent, the 8003 MK1 was very ordinary and I have not heard that the 8003MK2 is a huge improvement ... I would check them out first.

That was my concern, there's a 1000 difference in price between the 8003/8004, I suspect there's a reason for it. I have heard good things about the 8004, very little about the 8003.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2017, 11:42:26 am »


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