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Author Topic: Upgrade suggestions  (Read 11531 times)

Scott Gentry

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Upgrade suggestions
« on: August 07, 2017, 01:25:10 am »

Posted on this earlier, but changing directions. After some reflections on where and how I use my system I'm requesting some help from those who have heard and used better equipment than I. I have a good mixer and driverack VENU360, and good signal equipment feeding the mixer. From there I've been running 2dxr12's and 2prx718xlf's. about 70% use is playing pre recorded music, 30% live sound. My system hasn't been moved once in three years, and while the possibility exists that it may be later used differently, I'm not concerned about size or weight. 80% of the time I've been pretty happy with my setup, but when asking what I would consider "my" maximum requirements, it falls short just a bit. I find the Yamaha dxr very warm and have a certain depth and clarity without being to harsh, up to about 80/85% of their max, about where they start to faulter just a bit on the low end, crossed @100hz, and the highs start to get just a tad harsh. For mains I can run3 way or 2 way, size doesn't really matter, and there are definitely times I run the system without subs, say singing later at night. The 718's do fine as well, once again to a point. On subs I definitely have pushed the current setup to where I'm hitting max driver excursion, audibly. 718's tone isn't bad, but would prefer more rounded low end. They're good subs for what I paid, but I think I'm ready for a bit more. System requirements are sound quality first, levels good enough for up to a few hundred people outdoors, and components need to be simplified and of good quality, I expect to still be using it in five years.
I'd like two strong performing mains with excellent sound quality, and for subs I'm leaning towards 4 DXS18's, 4 ETX 18's, or 2 RCF 8004 or 8005.
I have good pricing access to EAW, RCF, DB technologies, and Yamaha. There are others, but I'd likely want to stay focused there unless there's a promising lesser known brand I should consider. Budget would be somewhere around 8-9k. Thank you for your help!
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 01:38:10 am by Scott Gentry »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 02:37:26 am »

Posted on this earlier, but changing directions. After some reflections on where and how I use my system I'm requesting some help from those who have heard and used better equipment than I. I have a good mixer and driverack VENU360, and good signal equipment feeding the mixer. From there I've been running 2dxr12's and 2prx718xlf's. about 70% use is playing pre recorded music, 30% live sound. My system hasn't been moved once in three years, and while the possibility exists that it may be later used differently, I'm not concerned about size or weight. 80% of the time I've been pretty happy with my setup, but when asking what I would consider "my" maximum requirements, it falls short just a bit. I find the Yamaha dxr very warm and have a certain depth and clarity without being to harsh, up to about 80/85% of their max, about where they start to faulter just a bit on the low end, crossed @100hz, and the highs start to get just a tad harsh. For mains I can run3 way or 2 way, size doesn't really matter, and there are definitely times I run the system without subs, say singing later at night. The 718's do fine as well, once again to a point. On subs I definitely have pushed the current setup to where I'm hitting max driver excursion, audibly. 718's tone isn't bad, but would prefer more rounded low end. They're good subs for what I paid, but I think I'm ready for a bit more. System requirements are sound quality first, levels good enough for up to a few hundred people outdoors, and components need to be simplified and of good quality, I expect to still be using it in five years.
I'd like two strong performing mains with excellent sound quality, and for subs I'm leaning towards 4 DXS18's, 4 ETX 18's, or 2 RCF 8004 or 8005.
I have good pricing access to EAW, RCF, DB technologies, and Yamaha. There are others, but I'd likely want to stay focused there unless there's a promising lesser known brand I should consider. Budget would be somewhere around 8-9k. Thank you for your help!

For 8k I think the only upgrade that is going to get you a significant improvement to what you have is JTR's.  The big RCF and DB Tech cabinets you can only get 2 for 8k, that's not as big a step up as you think.  You need 4 dual 18's to get you going.

4 JBL STX828SP's are also in your budget and would do well.  If you sell your existing system you can probably get 4 STX835SP's to upgrade the tops too.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Scott Gentry

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 03:09:33 am »

I have two 718's that will be going away, I can get 4 Dxs18's, 4 etx 18's, or 2 RCF 8004, or possibly 2 8005 if I stretched my budget a bit. Using my sources that's between 4.5 to 6k on subs. I could likely get to about 2500 Map per main, prefer 2. That's where I'm struggling more. Looking at the EAW RL15. The SRX835 won't be in my possession shortly, I'm calling it quits there.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 09:18:26 am »

I have two 718's that will be going away, I can get 4 Dxs18's, 4 etx 18's, or 2 RCF 8004, or possibly 2 8005 if I stretched my budget a bit. Using my sources that's between 4.5 to 6k on subs. I could likely get to about 2500 Map per main, prefer 2. That's where I'm struggling more. Looking at the EAW RL15. The SRX835 won't be in my possession shortly, I'm calling it quits there.

I don't pay much attention to MAP buy you should be able to get 4 835 and 4 828's for right around 10k delivered.

Why do you need four tops.  Are you covering a space that is to wide for the dispersion of the speaker?    You can't combine tops to increase output the way you do subs.

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Geert Friedhof

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 10:07:26 am »

I own RCF 8004's, and i must say i am still very impressed by them, but they are a bit pricy. Maybe the new 8003-as mk2 will work for you? They are around 1500 USD MAP here in Europe, where the 8004 is around 2300 USD MAP.

ETX 18: really not impressed by them, and over here 200 USD more expensive than the 8003 mk2. I haven't heard the 8003 mk2 yet, but if they are anything like the 8004 you will be happy.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 10:19:13 am by Geert Friedhof »
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Scott Gentry

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 10:43:12 am »

I don't pay much attention to MAP buy you should be able to get 4 835 and 4 828's for right around 10k delivered.

Why do you need four tops.  Are you covering a space that is to wide for the dispersion of the speaker?    You can't combine tops to increase output the way you do subs.

Scott, I'm sorry, I guess I didn't properly clarify things well. I'd like to end up with two tops, four subs. I will still consider the SRX 828's, although I'd only get two if I went that direction. That being said, I'm not sticking with the SRX 835's, they are being returned. I don't need to have matching tops and subs, but I'm not against it either.
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Scott Gentry

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2017, 11:01:19 am »

I own RCF 8004's, and i must say i am still very impressed by them, but they are a bit pricy. Maybe the new 8003-as mk2 will work for you? They are around 1500 USD MAP here in Europe, where the 8004 is around 2300 USD MAP.

ETX 18: really not impressed by them, and over here 200 USD more expensive than the 8003 mk2. I haven't heard the 8003 mk2 yet, but if they are anything like the 8004 you will be happy.


If I go RCF on the subs I'd likely lean towards the 8004 or 8005, and go with two. I could likely afford 4 of the 8003 if I spent a little more time getting funds together, which is an option. I was leaning towards the 4 DXS18's or 4 ETX18, because I know I'll need to double the prx718's to get a noticeable difference. From what I've heard and read, both of those are better performing subs, albeit not a quantum leap, than the 718, one on one / head to head. The reason for considering two RCF was budget. I would expect two 8004 or 8005 would also perform better than two 718, but think I'd get a more noticeable increase in sub output by running 4 18's. Since you own the 8004, will 2 outperform 4 decent quality 18's that I've previously mentioned? As for mains, what would be your choice there?
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Lance Hallmark

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2017, 11:43:05 am »

For 8k I think the only upgrade that is going to get you a significant improvement to what you have is JTR's.  The big RCF and DB Tech cabinets you can only get 2 for 8k, that's not as big a step up as you think.  You need 4 dual 18's to get you going.

4 JBL STX828SP's are also in your budget and would do well.  If you sell your existing system you can probably get 4 STX835SP's to upgrade the tops too.

A pair of Yamaha DSR112s sound really good with the JTR Orbit Shifter subs and for dance music the Yorkville LS 800/801p subs will fill the low end better than many subs of the same size. Either combo could put you under your $8k budget, maybe well under as you may find that you only need a pair of either of these subs compared to others. I agree that you don't need multiple tops unless you have a wide area to cover, especially if you have 90x60 tops, you will need a higher, clearer output though, which the DSR handles.
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Lance Hallmark
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Chamsys, Crown, Danley, EV, JTR, Powersoft, Yamaha

Steve Crump

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2017, 11:48:34 am »

Posted on this earlier, but changing directions. After some reflections on where and how I use my system I'm requesting some help from those who have heard and used better equipment than I. I have a good mixer and driverack VENU360, and good signal equipment feeding the mixer. From there I've been running 2dxr12's and 2prx718xlf's. about 70% use is playing pre recorded music, 30% live sound. My system hasn't been moved once in three years, and while the possibility exists that it may be later used differently, I'm not concerned about size or weight. 80% of the time I've been pretty happy with my setup, but when asking what I would consider "my" maximum requirements, it falls short just a bit. I find the Yamaha dxr very warm and have a certain depth and clarity without being to harsh, up to about 80/85% of their max, about where they start to faulter just a bit on the low end, crossed @100hz, and the highs start to get just a tad harsh. For mains I can run3 way or 2 way, size doesn't really matter, and there are definitely times I run the system without subs, say singing later at night. The 718's do fine as well, once again to a point. On subs I definitely have pushed the current setup to where I'm hitting max driver excursion, audibly. 718's tone isn't bad, but would prefer more rounded low end. They're good subs for what I paid, but I think I'm ready for a bit more. System requirements are sound quality first, levels good enough for up to a few hundred people outdoors, and components need to be simplified and of good quality, I expect to still be using it in five years.
I'd like two strong performing mains with excellent sound quality, and for subs I'm leaning towards 4 DXS18's, 4 ETX 18's, or 2 RCF 8004 or 8005.
I have good pricing access to EAW, RCF, DB technologies, and Yamaha. There are others, but I'd likely want to stay focused there unless there's a promising lesser known brand I should consider. Budget would be somewhere around 8-9k. Thank you for your help!



I just wanted to give JTR a vote here also. I just purchased (2) JTR 3TXs and (4) of the Captivator 212 pros and have only used them at (2) city "First Saturdays" outdoor events. We play MP3 tracks before the show and during breaks and band live reinforcement the rest of the time at these events. I am really happy with the setup. It is a lot lighter and more compact than my previous setup and sounds fantastic. Call Jeff and tell him what your looking for and see what he recommends, seems to work out great (can't hurt).
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 04:35:08 pm »



I just wanted to give JTR a vote here also. I just purchased (2) JTR 3TXs and (4) of the Captivator 212 pros and have only used them at (2) city "First Saturdays" outdoor events. We play MP3 tracks before the show and during breaks and band live reinforcement the rest of the time at these events. I am really happy with the setup. It is a lot lighter and more compact than my previous setup and sounds fantastic. Call Jeff and tell him what your looking for and see what he recommends, seems to work out great (can't hurt).

Can you offer a subjective opinion of the 212's vs. the output of two KW181's, EV ETX or JBL PRX (I suspect there are others in this class but those are the only I have experience with).  I am hoping you tell me that single 96 pound box has the output of two 90lb boxes!

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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Upgrade suggestions
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2017, 04:35:08 pm »


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