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Author Topic: Large install, small budget  (Read 6784 times)

Travis Dean TenKley

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 07:45:55 PM »

Scott you are correct, except it is in the 10's of thousands.  I've seen heavy speakers suspended over people using rope through plastic handles.  I just lost a church system sale because I refused to sell them a loudspeaker system (with factory flying parts) that they want to suspend on a wood laminated beam.  I ask for an engineer to signoff on the safety aspect.  They said that wasn't needed because they new it would support thousands of pounds.  I refused the sale without an engineering report.

I agree with all of your guys' comments.  I came here with not to get lectured, (i'm married i don't need more), but to get insight which i received.  I understand the liability, rules, laws, policies, etc... 
I'm just giving a friend some options for his business he spent 300,000 dollars on and as an afterthought, needs a better sounding sysytem for around $4000 on.  I know he should wait and hire a sound design company but he dosent have that time or money right now.

Thanks again.
Travis
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 08:00:33 PM »

I agree with all of your guys' comments.  I came here with not to get lectured, (i'm married i don't need more), but to get insight which i received.  I understand the liability, rules, laws, policies, etc... 
I'm just giving a friend some options for his business he spent 300,000 dollars on and as an afterthought, needs a better sounding sysytem for around $4000 on.  I know he should wait and hire a sound design company but he dosent have that time or money right now.

Thanks again.
Travis

Then your friend should just send the 3000 bucks to a charity and buy 4 $200 speakers.  Same result.  Smart people don't waste money like that or not properly budget for something that may turn out to be a life safety issue.

So what did you come here for?  Emotional validation of a bad idea?  An answer to your original question if audio signals are delayed on a wire?  That was answered too. 

300k to rehab is $5 a square foot, you can barely get the floors cleaned for that rate let alone install a proper fire suppression, lighting and other items needed to accommodate the public. 

Friends tell their friends the truth not let the waste their money.

Guess you got your lecture, sorry.  When you go to the barbershop you get a haircut don't you?

 
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Travis Dean TenKley

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 08:12:59 PM »

Then your friend should just send the 3000 bucks to a charity and buy 4 $200 speakers.  Same result.  Smart people don't waste money like that or not properly budget for something that may turn out to be a life safety issue.

So what did you come here for?  Emotional validation of a bad idea?  An answer to your original question if audio signals are delayed on a wire?  That was answered too. 

300k to rehab is $5 a square foot, you can barely get the floors cleaned for that rate let alone install a proper fire suppression, lighting and other items needed to accommodate the public. 

Friends tell their friends the truth not let the waste their money.

Guess you got your lecture, sorry.  When you go to the barbershop you get a haircut don't you?
I did get my questions answered which already said. 
As usual, the comments keep coming which is fine, but just get old after the 4th lecture.  The owner knows his risks as do i, he dosent want to wait.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2017, 08:25:28 PM »

I did get my questions answered which already said. 
As usual, the comments keep coming which is fine, but just get old after the 4th lecture.  The owner knows his risks as do i, he dosent want to wait.


Let's reconsider for the short term:

Given that playback of recorded music requires a paid license and the proposed setup will not support that type of program, your friend might consider some form of ambient soundscape instead.  Something like arcade game "bee-boops", whizzes, bells and gongs controlling some light pulses.
Lighting is cheap, has no RT60 concerns and could be sound controlled.  You could even mic up some choice games.

Let that cover until the system can be properly expanded.

Edit:

I take PayPal...
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:29:09 PM by dick rees »
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Travis Dean TenKley

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2017, 08:53:55 PM »


Let's reconsider for the short term:

Given that playback of recorded music requires a paid license and the proposed setup will not support that type of program, your friend might consider some form of ambient soundscape instead.  Something like arcade game "bee-boops", whizzes, bells and gongs controlling some light pulses.
Lighting is cheap, has no RT60 concerns and could be sound controlled.  You could even mic up some choice games.

Let that cover until the system can be properly expanded.

Edit:

I take PayPal...

That is a good idea too, but he wants the speakers for their annoucements and dj's to plug into on fri and sat nights.  Oh yeah, did i mention the building is the size of a football field plus some.
I would love your opinion Dick on if 6 speakers of a budget of $4000 could surfice and mounted in corners, sides, straight down or cluster would wven matter?  No subs at this point.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2017, 09:00:23 PM »

but he wants the speakers for their annoucements and dj's to plug into on fri and sat nights.
OK, things just changed.

What sort of "performance" do you expect for the "DJs".

Just something to make some noise?  Or an actual DJ performance?

BIG BIG difference.

Knowing what you are actually expecting goes a LONG way towards getting a decent result.

Reality is not what people often want to hear.  But they WILL experience at some point.

I would prepare your customer for the reality of spending a lot more money on a speaker system.
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Travis Dean TenKley

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2017, 09:10:32 PM »

OK, things just changed.

What sort of "performance" do you expect for the "DJs".

Just something to make some noise?  Or an actual DJ performance?

BIG BIG difference.

Knowing what you are actually expecting goes a LONG way towards getting a decent result.

Reality is not what people often want to hear.  But they WILL experience at some point.

I would prepare your customer for the reality of spending a lot more money on a speaker system.
Yeah.  All the information was posted in the first couple of posts from myself.  They just need louder than the arcade games which arent that loud.  I played there with my x 2 qsc k12 and they were plenty loud, thats why i picked 6 of those but was open to suggestions on other speakers and placement.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2017, 09:50:38 PM »

That is a good idea too, but he wants the speakers for their annoucements and dj's to plug into on fri and sat nights.  Oh yeah, did i mention the building is the size of a football field plus some.
I would love your opinion Dick on if 6 speakers of a budget of $4000 could surfice and mounted in corners, sides, straight down or cluster would wven matter?  No subs at this point.

No, nothing so far makes any sense.  What's required is to sit down and define what's needed NOW, what's NEXT and the "ultimate setup".  You're probably looking at two systems mnimum: 

1.  Voice/anouncements over the entire area.  Likely a 70v distributed system.

2.  A DJ/music system covering a designated area clearly and providing some reverberative ambience in the rest of the space.  This is liable to include some acoustic design work to be built into the space.

Getting it done for $4000.00 ain't gonna happen.  Getting it done for $40,000 is a start.  Done right and finished out you're looking at over $100K at a minimum. 

Anything else is dreaming.
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Large install, small budget
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2017, 10:19:09 PM »

Yeah.  All the information was posted in the first couple of posts from myself.  They just need louder than the arcade games which arent that loud.  I played there with my x 2 qsc k12 and they were plenty loud, thats why i picked 6 of those but was open to suggestions on other speakers and placement.

That makes no sense.  I know a bit about K, we have a warehouse full of it.  You might have had a hot spot to enjoy the music but no possible way you got on top of the games at even 100ft.  At 100ft KW's can barely do 100db SPL sending them compresse program.

Having multiple speakers overlap is the worst thing you can do for intelligibility.  With your plan you will have all the sources converging in what is probably the busiest area of the building.

Dave and Buster's doesn't do Dj's and I know exactly what they put in, and announcements are intelligible.   With a  building a 1/4 the size you have they spent 32 times what you are budgeting 12 years ago. 



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Brian_Henry

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Large install, small budget
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 12:15:47 AM »

Yeah.  All the information was posted in the first couple of posts from myself.  They just need louder than the arcade games which arent that loud.  I played there with my x 2 qsc k12 and they were plenty loud, thats why i picked 6 of those but was open to suggestions on other speakers and placement.

I just got back from a similar type of place with my kids just today. I measured the sound level. It was a hair under 95 C/slow depending on where you stand. I can't imagine hearing music with any intelligibility from 4-6 K12s at 50'. Or from 1 of them which is the ideal situation.

The place really should have a hearing protection program per OSHA. (Edit: I'm not saying they don't, but I doubt it)


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Large install, small budget
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 12:15:47 AM »


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