ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles  (Read 8282 times)

Josh Rawls

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 189
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 10:39:03 am »

I have a full JBL SRX800 FOH rig consisting of 2 835's, 4 812's, 2 828's, and 2 818's. I don't use any sort of outside processing and it sounds very good. Get rid of the DriveRack, network the SRX speakers, use the SRX Connect app or Audio Architect, and I think you will be happy.
Logged
Josh Rawls

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 21372
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 10:55:49 am »

Hi Scott - welcome to the forum.

We need to divide this discussion into two pieces - your level issues with the SRX boxes, and whether the Venue360 is beneficial.  We also need to separate the concept of input sensitivity from speaker capability.

Starting with the last first - for whatever reason, JBL made the (IMO) dubious decision to design the SRX boxes with a 26dB gain, rather than 32dB that is more common for devices of this type.  What this means is you need to drive the SRX boxes with a louder signal to get equivalent output compared to a speaker like the Yamaha DXR12.  This has nothing to do with the acoustical output ability of the speakers; it simply means you need to turn the send level to the SRX boxes up compared to other products.

There are several ways to turn up the level on the SRX boxes - you can move to "consumer" mode as Stelios suggested which adds about 10dB of gain, or you can simply turn both the input channel gain up and the master volume up.  I forget which, but one of them goes to +6.0dB, which should make up most of the level discrepancy.  Or you can do it by adding gain in your Driverack.

The final question is whether the Venu360 adds anything for you.  I will dissent from the other posters and say yes it does.  It isn't required for your SRX boxes as they have internal DSP, however your current subs do not have user-adjustable processing in them, so using the Driverack gives you processing for your subs and a convenient single place to adjust your mains as well.

Note that in the case of your subs and especially your SRX boxes, they already have some internal processing, and the SRX boxes have very substantial processing. In the case of your SRX boxes, only some of the processing is accessible to you; the rest of it is a black box that provides driver protection and very advanced tuning to make the box sound good with no other effort.  You can zero out any DSP changes you've made in the SRX boxes, but you can't "remove" all of the processing that the manufacturer put there, and you certainly wouldn't want to if you could.

As to how to fix your issues - you need to dig in to gain structure.  I can assure you the SRX boxes have SIGNIFICANTLY more output capability than the Yamaha DXR series; you need to figure out where your lack of gain is.  Start with adjusting the SRX boxes to +6.0dB input gain.  From there if you want more, you can go to the output channels of the Driverack and add gain there.

The second stage of this is to do some alignment between your subs and mains - something that the Driverack will help you with.  You can read up on how to do a basic nulling alignment by ear, or you can have someone help you use a measurement system to get this setup.

If you post your location, there may be someone nearby who would be willing to stop over and help you get all of this running.

I played with the SRX828sp in our shop and found that it didn't require any more input level than other equipment in our shop, but we've been on a 26dB gain basis for a long time so it was pretty much plug and play.

Not sure why JBL made the decision but it's only been a problem for operators that got their panties in a wad before just turning things up.  Perhaps a combination of under and over-thinking?  At any rate I can understand the surprise when the "new & improved" product didn't automagically match the item it replaced.

I recall the number of kludges that folks came up with, including turning up the output level of the input compressor processing (using a 1:1 ratio) and other things that increased the internal drive level.  None of that was necessary - turn down the top boxes by -6dB and turn up the mixer output.

Some folks are used to very low drive signal levels, in fact I recently did a show with a "Band You've Heard Of" where the BE wanted the system gain staged "... for proper 0.775V. drive level."  It seems he doesn't like the way most consoles sound at higher levels but he's willing to overlook the increased noise floor.  I changed the input sensitivity in our ITech HD 12000s to 1.4V and he was happy.  Since all our amps are the same power and gain, it didn't affect any processing or drive other than system input level.

The other tidbit I'll give folks using the SRX800 powered boxes - can you hear that limit light?  IOW, can you hear it working?  If not, ignore it and stop listening with your eyes.  If you CAN hear it working and still need more, you need different or more speakers.  There is no magic kludge to make them create more SPL even if you drive with at 10V.

I know you know all this, TJ, it's for the benefit of those who haven't had the time or initiative to work through the change in input sensitivity.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Scott Gentry

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 11:31:39 am »

I believe the input level on the speaker only goes to 0 db, output seems to go to +12. Driverack input and output settings are +24 & +12 respectively, which I believe is default. Would bumping the output levels on the driverack +6 db get closer to what I'm used to? Any pros or cons to doing that??
Or, would I be better served to set input sensitivity to consumer and gain 12bd there? From what I've researched so far there isn't a way to increase input gain past 0 db, only hard settings on the sensitivity menu.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 12:05:17 pm by Scott Gentry »
Logged

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4284
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 01:16:22 pm »

I believe the input level on the speaker only goes to 0 db, output seems to go to +12. Driverack input and output settings are +24 & +12 respectively, which I believe is default. Would bumping the output levels on the driverack +6 db get closer to what I'm used to? Any pros or cons to doing that??
Or, would I be better served to set input sensitivity to consumer and gain 12bd there? From what I've researched so far there isn't a way to increase input gain past 0 db, only hard settings on the sensitivity menu.
I don't own the SRX835p, but I do own SRX812p and one of the knobs on the back of the cabinet goes to +6.  I can't remember if it's the master (I think it is) or the channel gain.

It doesn't really matter how you add gain - the result is the same.  Setting to consumer mode is just fine.  You will at some point need to set the relative levels of your mains and subs, either by knobs on the speakers or your Driverack.
Logged

Scott Gentry

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 74
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2017, 06:38:15 pm »

I don't own the SRX835p, but I do own SRX812p and one of the knobs on the back of the cabinet goes to +6.  I can't remember if it's the master (I think it is) or the channel gain.

It doesn't really matter how you add gain - the result is the same.  Setting to consumer mode is just fine.  You will at some point need to set the relative levels of your mains and subs, either by knobs on the speakers or your Driverack.

If I want to make adjustments in the driverack for gain, according to the owners manual that's done in the input and output sensitivity if I read everything correctly. Current settings are +24db input / +12db output. Would you boost the outputs?? Or make changes elsewhere in the driverack?
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6002
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2017, 06:50:22 pm »

If I want to make adjustments in the driverack for gain, according to the owners manual that's done in the input and output sensitivity if I read everything correctly. Current settings are +24db input / +12db output. Would you boost the outputs?? Or make changes elsewhere in the driverack?

Why don't you try what myself and everyone have told you and ditch the drive rack.  I just am not sure you understand how powerful the processor in your speakers is. 

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 21372
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2017, 07:05:33 pm »

Why don't you try what myself and everyone have told you and ditch the drive rack.  I just am not sure you understand how powerful the processor in your speakers is.

It's more than a relatively powerful DSP, it's largely unneeded in Scott G's application and his trying to use it is leading to further deviation from his initial issue.  There will be uses for the 360 at a later time.

Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6002
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2017, 08:58:08 pm »

It's more than a relatively powerful DSP, it's largely unneeded in Scott G's application and his trying to use it is leading to further deviation from his initial issue.  There will be uses for the 360 at a later time.

Agree he can use it to process and protect his subs.
Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

BrianHenry

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 166
  • NJ
    • Mountainside Studios, LLC
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2017, 01:37:57 am »

I don't own the SRX835p, but I do own SRX812p and one of the knobs on the back of the cabinet goes to +6.  I can't remember if it's the master (I think it is) or the channel gain.

Hey Tom,

I just received a pair of SRX812p's and I just verified the input sensitivity maxes at 0 and the output/master at +12. Are you sure yours stop at +6? Just interested to see if something changed in the production of these boxes along the way.
Logged

bill jones chauncey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • jerry garcia band fanboy
Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2017, 01:24:50 pm »

"keep the Driverrack360?"..........

i had to add something... i also have srx 828p and 835p and 815p and 2 prx818's.... the srx presets on the back of the speaker are perfect...easy as pie... but the driverrack has a SubR
Harmonic generator which can really add the frosting to your PA set up. If whatever your source material is not thumpy by itself you can dial in extra bass with the Sub/Gen. especially works great on kick drums. that feature alone is worth the cost of a Driverrack. IMHO....

 love this froum. and am so happy to have spent the money and bought these speakers. i am just an avid greatful dear fanboy who plays music loud
Logged
JBL SRX 835p (2)....SRX 815p(2)....SRX 828p(1)....PRX818xlf (2).  Driverack PA2, Soundcraft UI12

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: SRX835P and Driverack Venue360 level struggles
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2017, 01:24:50 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.089 seconds with 23 queries.