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Author Topic: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL  (Read 12378 times)

David Winners

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JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« on: July 26, 2017, 03:28:16 pm »

I'm working on a business plan for adding equipment to support outdoor festival shows next year. Fortunately, I completed my small rig for far less than I had budgeted do things are moving along faster than I had planned. I am also getting booked more frequently all the time and I'm charging more for shows now.

I'm comparing JTR and SRX systems. Typical requirements will be 100' x 100' primary listening area. 100db C slow at mix position (25m). These events are not rock concerts.

I'm looking at (4) Noesis tops over (4) Orbit Shifter Pro subs. I'm not sure which tops to choose because the specs are the same on the 2TX and 3TX tops, but the 3TX are more expensive. Comparisons are welcome here.

I'm also considering (4) SRX 835p tops over (4) SRX 828sp subs.

On paper, the SRX rig is around $10,000 cheaper and will have about 6db more output than the JTR rig. It seems that JBL may be inflating SPL numbers a bit and Jeff provides real world measurements. The specs are very lacking on the JTR cabinets though. Hence, my questions here.

I think either rig will definitely get the job done. Pros of the JTR rig are light weight, small truck pack, possibly better sound. Pros of the JBL rig are price, Audio Architect software, potential rider friendliness in the future, all active cabinets.

And last but not least, would I be better off going with (2) Sm80 over (4) TH118 with DNA amplification. Even smaller truck pack. Haven't checked pricing yet.

Thanks for any input. I'm also interested in any other suggestions anyone may have.
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Jonathan Betts

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2017, 05:12:35 pm »

If you want to save space, setup time and your back I would consider the JTR or DSL offerings.
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Robert Piascik

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2017, 05:17:39 pm »

I have no experience with the JTR or JBL systems so can't compare but do use that exact DSL set up in that exact size space and it is superb. It's probably more $$ but smaller size and easier deployment. If you've never heard the DSL stuff in person I urge you to find a way to hear it, it's amazing. I'm in Central Ohio if that helps you at all.
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Rick Powell

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 08:00:15 pm »

Either the TH118 or the Orbit Shifter will slay the SRX 828 in a one-on-one battle (assuming they are optimally powered). As far as the SRX 835 v. the SM80, the SM80 gets super loud and sounds good doing it, and can keep up with two TH118's per side. I haven't heard the Noesis series but am familiar with the BMS dual-driver HF element that is used in the 3TX, and it is one of the most articulate HF drivers on the market. The 2TX uses a single-driver element that is very good, but not stellar like the one in the 3TX. The 3TX users here rave about its clarity and volume. The 835 is probably stronger in the low mids than either the SM80 or 3TX; depending on your deployment, choice of subs and sound preferences, this may or may not make a difference. The SRX boxes are no slouch either though, much respect, and JBL is a popular brand that you can cross-rent easier than the rarer Danley or JTR brands. My .02, and I am a TH118/SM80 user with the first pair of SM80s off the assembly line.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 08:05:31 pm by Rick Powell »
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jeremy Young

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 10:02:13 pm »

I've owned my 4-ohm Orbit Shifter Pro's for almost 2 years now.  One per side in stereo on a Crest Pro-Lite 7.5 makes a lot of low end. I thought I'd have four by now, but noise complaints usually start rolling in long before I reach the limiters. 

I was running them under a pair of EV ZXA5's but I just acquired a pair of SM80's.  I haven't gigged with the Danley's yet, but I can say that I haven't needed more than 2 OS-Pro's for any of the sub-500 person events I've used them at.  I operate solo 99.9% of the time.  I'm anticipating growing into another pair of OS-Pro's now that I have the SM80's, at which point I'll be running my amp at 2-ohm stereo. 

At the time I bought the OS-Pro's they were cheaper than TH118's, offered bottom handles that the TH118 didn't, and had top pole cups that the TH118 didn't. Those were important factors in my decision making, YMMV.  Oh, and I believe pole cups are now available on the TH118 if that matters.

I thought long and hard about the Noesis 3TX before deciding on the SM80's, but the hopes of better pattern control in the low-mids and the ability to use my BT-12CL tilters with the SM80's made the decision for me.  I typically use ST-132 crank stands to get my mains in the air and didn't want to deal with trussing for a taller cab like the 3TX. 

I bought the SM80's and OS-Pro's before ever hearing them, simply on what I'd read (exhaustively) on these forums and a leap of faith.  I've never heard the 3TX's but I LOVE BMS Coax drivers so I'm inclined to believe all the positive feedback about them around these forums.  Dealing with Jeff at JTR was a positive experience.


Good luck and let us know what you decide!
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eric lenasbunt

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 10:06:43 pm »

5 years ago I would have gone for the one with the sexiest sound guy appeal/fun factor. Now that I successfully do this full time and employ a full time crew I would say save the $10k, buy some other stuff you need like cabling and infrastructure, take the crew (if you have one) out to lunch and then take a vacation. You should still have a couple of bucks of that $10k left. Use it on lighting which is where the real money is.

We own SRX835P and they do great for the small events like you are talking about.
I don't mean to sound jaded, I'm far from it. I just spent a lot of time and money buying gear like it was a hobby and treating it as a business. Treat it as a business. If it gets the job done for $10k less that's a great business move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Steve Rynbrandt

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 11:17:00 pm »

We use both JBL SRX835P and Danley SM80/TH118 rigs in our company, we don't have any SR828SP bottoms though. Here are a couple points of consideration coming from our experiences and trying not to echo others' responses.

First, getting the tops in the air. All of our folks much prefer to throw the SM80s on poles, stands, or a stack of subs rather than the SRX835Ps. SM80s weigh considerably less (65lbs vs 85lbs) and are much more compact, contributing greatly to the stability in peoples hands when lifting as well as at the top of a pole (and to clarify Jeremy's post TH118s can be ordered with pole cups which are installed on the top and sides, ours have them and they are awesome). In many cases a single person can stack/put up the SM80s, while the SRX835Ps require 2 people.

Second, you mentioned that you're targeting outdoor events. Outdoors in the summer, especially here in the midwest (we're in Michigan, I see you're in Ohio), means pop-up thunderstorms and showers that can be very hard to predict. While we don't like any of our equipment getting wet, we're much less concerned about the passive loudspeakers than we are the active ones. It would take a driving rain right into the grills to cause us much concern with the SM80s/TH118s, and in a drizzle or light shower we don't really worry about it at all aside from making sure the amplifiers are covered, but it's a different story when we use active loudspeakers outdoors.

Business wise, the Danley system has practically zero opportunity for dry rentals to the general public. The SRXs on the other hand are pretty easy to rent, as people can pick them up at the shop, throw them into most cars, and they have a darn good system to iPod DJ on that has decent bass response without subs. Even our employees regularly take SRX tops out on personal events and they do a great job, but when subs are called for the Danley rig is the system of choice for our folks.

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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 06:21:16 am »

I suspect a genuine 100dB C-slow at 25m is going to need more than any of these rigs if you're using the system for live music.

100dB @25m is 128dB@1m. With reasonably dynamic recorded music (I tested Sultans of Swing by Dire Straits), the difference between the peak and average volume was 18dB. So, to reproduce that track at 100dB C-slow at 25m, the system must produce 146dB peaks at 1m distance.

If you're right in the middle, you'd get 6dB of boost from the doubling in sound pressure, so each side would need to do 140dB peaks. That's probably possible if you don't mind tickling the limiters all night.

Live music is very dynamic, so you'd need even more headroom than that, though, which is why I'd recommend moving FOH closer to the stage or revisiting your SPL requirements.

Chris
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David Winners

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Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 07:47:39 am »

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to share your experience. I'm waiting on some more quotes to come in and crunching numbers.

A couple points.

I'm new to audio measurement. I just started taking SPL readings at indoor shows and playing around with REW in the shop. If 100db C-slow takes more rig than I'm looking at, it is an unrealistic number for me in a financial sense. My current position in the market will not allow me to put up a SH46 rig. I would lose my ass on every show. I've seen the same SRX rig on a couple shows and it was loud enough for what I'm doing.

This lack of measurement experience may play a part in my decision if the Danley or JTR rigs need measured and adjusted to sound good. I don't think that is the case if using factory recommended DSP, but wanted to throw that info out there. I suspect it will be a while before my measurement chops are worthy of either of those rigs.

I need wide coverage for festival type events. I have QRx 112/75 I could use for front/out fills if necessary, but I would like to cover as much as possible with the FOH stacks. Hence the (4) 60* tops.

Weight of the tops is definitely a concern as I only have one helper and neither of us are young rubber people anymore.


Questions:

What amp/processing packages should I look at for the Danley and JTR rigs? The Crown iTech HD are really expensive. I know you have to pay to play, but dang. I haven't seen pricing on the DNA amps yet. Powered subs are definitely an option, but the weather worries me as Steve was so kind to point out. I'm also not worried about wringing every last db out of the system.  I definitely don't want to completely cheap out on amps though. That would defeat the purpose of going with high end gear. Is there a good enough middle ground?

Who do you recommend for covers? I'm looking at Under Cover NYC for weather proof covers.

Looking at rough numbers on the high side of things, the system will pay for itself in about 2-1/2 years if I don't grow much in that time. Does that sound reasonable? I will financing the purchase myself, so no interest.

Again, thank you guys for your input. I really appreciate it.
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Peter Morris

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« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 08:23:05 am by Peter Morris »
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: JTR vs. JBL SRX or maybe DSL
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 08:17:13 am »


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