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Author Topic: RF coordination.  (Read 2989 times)

Al Rettich

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RF coordination.
« on: July 13, 2017, 02:28:10 pm »

I do quite a bit of work with a local A/V company who has all their 20 Shure UHFR units in G1 band.  Which when in places like Phoenix, makes it a bit difficult. When your doing coordination when do you say enough channels in that band?
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2017, 04:18:15 pm »

I do quite a bit of work with a local A/V company who has all their 20 Shure UHFR units in G1 band.  Which when in places like Phoenix, makes it a bit difficult. When your doing coordination when do you say enough channels in that band?
The short answer is probably "when your coordination software runs out of suggested frequencies to use".
That said, a couple of weeks back I did a week, outdoors, in downtown Toronto with 18 channels of H4 on the main stage and four more in a 2nd zone a few hundred feet away, as well as a couple more in the main coordination for one act. So that was 20 on the main stage. Didn't have a single problem, and with all of the transmitters turned off every single receiver was completely dark. That was using IAS. I haven't tried this for this show yet, but in the past I have experimented with trying to do the same coordination in WWB as one for a show that I had already successfully completed using IAS. So far, I haven't been able to get WWB to even find frequencies for all of the UHF-R that were used.
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~Ike Zimbel~
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Pete Erskine

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2017, 06:33:36 pm »

The short answer is probably "when your coordination software runs out of suggested frequencies to use".
That said, a couple of weeks back I did a week, outdoors, in downtown Toronto with 18 channels of H4 on the main stage and four more in a 2nd zone a few hundred feet away, as well as a couple more in the main coordination for one act. So that was 20 on the main stage. Didn't have a single problem, and with all of the transmitters turned off every single receiver was completely dark. That was using IAS. I haven't tried this for this show yet, but in the past I have experimented with trying to do the same coordination in WWB as one for a show that I had already successfully completed using IAS. So far, I haven't been able to get WWB to even find frequencies for all of the UHF-R that were used.

The two programs work very differently.  I compared both and had to adjust the equipment inventory a lot to get wwb to be close to IAS.  watch the video to see.

Part 1  https://youtu.be/-BmBRX70O68
Part 2  https://youtu.be/kzGP4KWLpA4

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Pete Erskine
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Al Rettich

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2017, 07:09:05 pm »

So, Pete sounds like WWB would be good for anything less than a dozen channels.  IAS though for everything else.  Looks like I need to rob the piggy bank and buy IAS for $500
The two programs work very differently.  I compared both and had to adjust the equipment inventory a lot to get wwb to be close to IAS.  watch the video to see.

Part 1  https://youtu.be/-BmBRX70O68
Part 2  https://youtu.be/kzGP4KWLpA4
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Ike Zimbel

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 10:50:31 pm »

So, Pete sounds like WWB would be good for anything less than a dozen channels.  IAS though for everything else.  Looks like I need to rob the piggy bank and buy IAS for $500
That's a bit hasty. IAS is a great program, but if you're not doing very large coordinations on a regular basis, give WWB a chance. As an experiment, I just imported my scan from the venue I mentioned above into WWB and then imported and coordinated the 18 H4 and 8 PSM-1000 L8 that I was using. WWB didn't agree with some of the H4 freq's that I had coordinated in IAS and ANY of the PSM-1000 freq's, but when I hit "Calculate" it did find freq's that it was happy with for all units. This seems like an improvement over earlier versions. Here's a screen shot of the scan and the 26 units mentioned above. My actual coordination had many more frequencies in it (100) that included other zones, intercom, local TV crews etc. But I'm sure you can do more than a dozen with WWB.
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~Ike Zimbel~
Wireless frequency coordination specialist and educator.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 11:13:15 pm »

So, Pete sounds like WWB would be good for anything less than a dozen channels.  IAS though for everything else.  Looks like I need to rob the piggy bank and buy IAS for $500

WWB is fine for large shows too, particularly if it's all Shure equipment since it can directly deploy to them.  My videos showed the different methods and what I struggled with is making them similar.  That should not be an issue.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2017, 05:06:59 pm »

Al,

I regularly use Shure's WWB6 for coordination and IMD calculation in hotels; when accounting for other companies, in-house systems, and any backup frequencies, I routinely deal with 50ch.+ of RF. Monitoring and configuration is just a plus.  ;D

WWB6 has really been improved for the pro-/semi-pro end user with the last few updates, and I finally feel that it's features are very usable for larger-scale deployments without being too buried or obscure to implement.


So, Pete sounds like WWB would be good for anything less than a dozen channels.  IAS though for everything else.  Looks like I need to rob the piggy bank and buy IAS for $500
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Al Rettich

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2017, 02:53:36 pm »

I recently started doing RF for corporate work.  Before it was always live performances.  I've found lately that corporate A/V companies don't purchase blocks of RF in different bandwidths.  The past two I've worked for have ALL their RF in one bandwidth.  For one company that's 30+ channels.  Here in Phoenix, I tried to use WWB6 and found that it didn't like putting frequencies in areas I did.  But the strange thing is those frequencies have been rock solid.  It's the others that have been giving me issues.   
Al,

I regularly use Shure's WWB6 for coordination and IMD calculation in hotels; when accounting for other companies, in-house systems, and any backup frequencies, I routinely deal with 50ch.+ of RF. Monitoring and configuration is just a plus.  ;D

WWB6 has really been improved for the pro-/semi-pro end user with the last few updates, and I finally feel that it's features are very usable for larger-scale deployments without being too buried or obscure to implement.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 03:28:42 pm »

...I've found lately that corporate A/V companies don't purchase blocks of RF in different bandwidths.  The past two I've worked for have ALL their RF in one bandwidth.
Yeah, band planning is not something that happens a lot.

I've been on more than one show where wireless mics and intercom were in the same range...not fun, but it somehow worked.
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Jordan Wolf
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Samuel Rees

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Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 03:25:33 pm »

I did 32 channels of Shure in workbench 6 yesterday. Outside, downtown DC. A bit crowded, but doable. It may not be the most sophisticated product on the market, but it's no slouch and is really nice to use with Shure products using direct deployment and configuration.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: RF coordination.
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2017, 03:25:33 pm »


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