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Author Topic: EAW system crossover points  (Read 3251 times)

Jon Ross

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EAW system crossover points
« on: June 27, 2017, 06:41:02 pm »

Similar to some other topics brought up here recently, I'm looking for some insight on a setup I plan to use for a gig this weekend. As usual the days timeline will not allow for too much experimentation so a few hints on crossover settings from anyone with some experience in this would be very helpful.
I have four triamped EAW Kf650z processed by a UX8800 processor. I also have four SB600z cabs I would like to use in addition to four center clustered Sb1000z subs. I'm planning to run the Sb1000s on an aux send and the Kf650z/SB600z on left and right outs.
My question is about crossover points between these 3 cabinets.
I could run the SB600z at 150Hz to 40Hz and the SB1000z from 80Hz to 30Hz.
Or run the SB600z at 150Hz to 80Hz and SB1000z from 80Hz to 30Hz

Also the 150Hz and 80Hz points are just my initial thoughts, no science to those crossover points.
Thoughts?
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Tim Hite

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 10:48:49 pm »

. . .a few hints on crossover settings from anyone with some experience in this would be very helpful.
. . .
Thoughts?

I'd start here. . .

http://eaw.com/docs/2_Legacy_Products/Processor%20Settings/

but I think the Greybox presets in your UX take care of this stuff for you, no? You have 4in and 8 out so you could set up the UX using two inputs for stereo 3-way for the 650's and use one input for mono to the SB600's. and another for mono to the SB1000's. That should process and handle all channels.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 10:53:15 pm by Tim Hite »
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Matthew Knischewsky

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 11:18:41 pm »

Jon,

Do you have some way to make phase measurements? (Eg. smaart)

Secondly, what kind of music?

I would forget about the SB600s in this application. 4 SB1000 and 4 KF650 are fairly well matched with the right power, and the SB600s don't go too low compared to SB1000. KF650s reproduce low mids very well so no need to add more output unless you have some special situation or config. Getting the phase response lined up to play well between all 3 cabinets will be a challenge, and probably not of much benefit. High pass the 650s at 80Hz as a starting place, and iirc you'll need to add a small amount of delay to the subs.
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2017, 08:00:06 am »

I would forget about the SB600s in this application. 4 SB1000 and 4 KF650 are fairly well matched with the right power, and the SB600s don't go too low compared to SB1000. KF650s reproduce low mids very well so no need to add more output unless you have some special situation or config. Getting the phase response lined up to play well between all 3 cabinets will be a challenge, and probably not of much benefit. High pass the 650s at 80Hz as a starting place, and iirc you'll need to add a small amount of delay to the subs.

+1

Jon Ross

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2017, 09:43:27 am »

I forgot to mention I have both a UX8800 and UX3600 for processing. The UX3600 would be processing the aux fed subs.

I do have Smaart, though not the brand new version. I have a basic understanding of how to use it and setting this up, taking some measurements would help me understand more.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2017, 05:29:58 pm »

It is one thing to simply "divide up freq", and quite another to get everything to work together well.

When you are using different subs, ESPECIALLY with different crossover points, the phase relationships (NOT polarity) can make quite a difference.

Remember that the phase changes as you change freq.  So different xover points will have different phase shifts.

You could guess-and might get lucky-but the PROPER way would be to actually measure the phase and amplitude responses and see how well they line up-and adjust as needed.

DO NOT assume that the presets in a DSP will simple "work together", unless the specific preset includes all of the speakers in question.
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Peter Morris

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 11:24:04 am »

Jon,

Do you have some way to make phase measurements? (Eg. smaart)

Secondly, what kind of music?

I would forget about the SB600s in this application. 4 SB1000 and 4 KF650 are fairly well matched with the right power, and the SB600s don't go too low compared to SB1000. KF650s reproduce low mids very well so no need to add more output unless you have some special situation or config. Getting the phase response lined up to play well between all 3 cabinets will be a challenge, and probably not of much benefit. High pass the 650s at 80Hz as a starting place, and iirc you'll need to add a small amount of delay to the subs.

Yes you will - the Gunness Focusing has a significant delay associated with flattening the phase etc ... as a GUESS in this case about 5- 7 ms.  This delay is not automatically considered in the settings for the subs by the UX8800.  EAW never addressed this  >:(  The sub delay is 3 ms i.e. the latency of the UX8800

If you want to get max SPL from the 650's, cross them a bit higher, around 120Hz to stop the LF driver running out of power before the mid's and HF.
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 01:17:57 pm »

Highpass the KF650 at 120hz towards the SB600 and run the SB1000 from 80hz and down on an aux. This works fairly well assuming you can get your timing right.
THe SB600 is quite nice as a KF650 extension box, but not overly impressive as a stand-alone sub these days. I'm setting up a 5-way system this way later this year using a 2x18" of my own design in the bottom. Prototype testing is in progress..
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Stu McDoniel

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Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 10:29:44 am »

SB600z at 150Hz to 80Hz and SB1000z from 80Hz to 30Hz

^THIS^
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: EAW system crossover points
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2017, 10:29:44 am »


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