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Author Topic: Outdoor sound setup.  (Read 3892 times)

Steve Mason

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Outdoor sound setup.
« on: June 27, 2017, 01:14:43 am »

Hi all.

I am going to be doing sound for a small county fair this summer.  The venue is a open front, but enclosed stage.  Crowd will be probably 200-300 listeners.  Open dancing area in front of the stage puts the first row of chairs at about 25 feet from the stage apron and Crowd area extends back to beyond 100 feet from stage but the 25-100 foot zone is the area I am wanting to make sure I cover.

I am looking at running
4 (2 pairs each side)  Peavey 215's  700 rms @ 4 ohms
2 Peavey 118 Subs 400 watts at 8ohms and reinforcing these subs with a pair of old EV S18 subs 300 watts @ 8 ohms

Because I am on a budget I will be pushing everything with 4 Behringer INuke 3000 amps  880 per channel @4 ohms and 400 per channel @ 8 ohms

I know the 215's will handle the main duties as I have used them in a similar situation before.  My biggest question is about the subs.  They are what I have to work with.  Looking for recommendations on how to get the most out of them. Should I just go in straight pairs with 2 amps and 400 watts to each sub or would I be better off to buy one more powerful amp instead of 2 of the  Behringers and run a peavey and an EV in parallel per channel with a 4 ohm load?  I appreciate your time.
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Gordon Brinton

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2017, 03:42:14 am »

It depends on your volume level requirements. At first glance, I am guessing you don't have enough rig for the gig (period). With those top boxes, (90 degree horns,) highs and mids may tend to drop off a short distance out from the stage, (probably between 50 and 100 feet,) and they won't splay well. Your subs may not have enough oomph for outdoor work either if kick and bass are involved. Furthermore, mixing subs types is highly discouraged.

I would consider renting a more capable system or at least renting subs for this one gig.

Good luck.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2017, 03:46:47 am by Gordon Brinton »
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2017, 08:13:25 am »


I am looking at running
4 (2 pairs each side)  Peavey 215's  700 rms @ 4 ohms
2 Peavey 118 Subs 400 watts at 8ohms and reinforcing these subs with a pair of old EV S18 subs 300 watts @ 8 ohms

Stack the 215's, horn to horn. Twist for wider coverage.
don't mix the subs.
Put the Peavey's on one side, and the EV on the other. This will minimize any funkiness.
For 2 or 300 people, you won't be a rock star, but it should do just fine.
Chris.
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

John Halliburton

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2017, 09:35:41 am »

Stack the 215's, horn to horn. Twist for wider coverage.
don't mix the subs.
Put the Peavey's on one side, and the EV on the other. This will minimize any funkiness.
For 2 or 300 people, you won't be a rock star, but it should do just fine.
Chris.

I disagree.  The top config is okay, but I would cluster the subs all together in the middle on the ground in front of the stage to maximize their collective output.  I'd definitely test this first at the shop outside to make sure they are setup correctly(including all cabling, double checking for correct polarities across all the subs).

Best regards,

John
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Thomas Le

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2017, 09:58:10 am »

Consider renting better equipment. 2x15's are a bad idea unless they have a big HF driver ala SRX725 or similar. Your 2x15's are most likely 1 to 1.5 inch which will struggle. Echoing Gordon, add to the fact that the subs will be nonexistent and you can't splay because of most likely the tops are 90 degrees horizontal which will introduce comb filtering.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2017, 09:59:20 am »

I disagree.  The top config is okay, but I would cluster the subs all together in the middle on the ground in front of the stage to maximize their collective output.  I'd definitely test this first at the shop outside to make sure they are setup correctly(including all cabling, double checking for correct polarities across all the subs).

Best regards,

John

Hi John. without decent measuring chops, my method will get the best results.
Trying to mix and match is troublesome at best. Custom EQ and delay always seem to be needed to even get close. I don't believe the OP has the tools or skill set to pull this off as a center cluster.
Hey, who knows. It is always possible that the subs will play nice, but I sure wouldn't count on it.
Chris.
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Steve Mason

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2017, 09:59:57 am »

Appreciate all the comments. I will have access to the venue so I can run everything up prior to the event. High volumes are not a huge factor as most of the bands will be more folksy and/or country.  No screaming metal or hip hop.
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2017, 11:16:10 am »

Appreciate all the comments. I will have access to the venue so I can run everything up prior to the event. High volumes are not a huge factor as most of the bands will be more folksy and/or country.  No screaming metal or hip hop.
... and with that, I think you'll be fine. Will it be pound-you-in-the-chest bass? No, but it doesn't need to be. Will your system be capable of 105db(a) at FOH? Of course not, but it doesn't need to be. As is typical of smaller fair shows- it'll be loud up close and quieter quickly moving away from the stage-- and those who want to experience it loud will stick close to the PA.

Should I just go in straight pairs with 2 amps and 400 watts to each sub or would I be better off to buy one more powerful amp instead of 2 of the  Behringers and run a peavey and an EV in parallel per channel with a 4 ohm load?  I appreciate your time.
Now to actually address the question you asked, instead of the one everyone else answered... ;) I think you'll be OK. Just set your gain structure well, and make sure you don't ask more of your gear than it's prepared to deliver. Keep them stereo; 1 box per amp channel. Chris makes a good point about keeping the same brand together on one side of the stage. (Although, to be candid, I don't think it would make any impact that someone would notice if you didn't...) If you were going to spend any money, though, buying a second pair of the same subs would be an interesting thought. (However, without knowing exactly what the rest of your entire show kit consists of, I cannot state that buying some more subs is the *best* use of your money to help this show be the best that it can be!)

Because I am on a budget
But now, the main reason I posted... I'd love to break people of the habit of using "budget" to imply "limited budget." *EVERYONE* should be on a budget! It just matters how much money you can allocate to it overall -- that will impact a purchasing decision. Some shows have $250k or more to spend on production. Some only have $5,000. Some sound companies, if they need more rig for a weekend, just buy the kit they need, knowing they'll use it more in the future and pay it off asap. Others will be in your shoes- "I gotta make what I have *right now* work."

Now, from a business point of view, I am assuming that your client is aware of the limitations of your system, and that the performers will be OK working on this system? Because advancing that information with everyone involved is crucial. You do not want to show up, and find a b-level regional act asking you why the system for the charity auction the night before is still there, and their PA hasn't arrived. (They're being snarky, those wise-asses.)

If this system doesn't prove adequate, or even if it is, and the client just wants a larger system next time, then you can start the discussions early on-- "Yes, we can get a more substantial system, but that will be rented in, so naturally our audio budget will need to be increased." Communication is important, as is building rapport with the client. They need to see that you're in this to help them have a great show, and not just to put a bunch of more money in your pocket.

-Ray
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Sammy Barr

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2017, 11:48:04 am »

I have been in a similar situation as yours running someone else's system.
Consider running a dual system with your two per side cabinets. Put vocals only in the inside cabinets and instruments in the outside cabinets and subs. It will allow for cleaner vocals and instruments and will minimize interference. It worked well for me.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2017, 12:22:43 pm »


Because I am on a budget I will be pushing everything with 4 Behringer INuke 3000 amps  880 per channel @4 ohms and 400 per channel @ 8 ohms

----

 would I be better off to buy one more powerful amp instead of 2 of the  Behringers

If you're on a tight budget, WHY are you looking to buy gear for the job?  It's far less expensive to rent the gear that you need.  If you can't afford to rent the gear, then you are not charging enough for the gig.
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Brian Jojade

Steve Mason

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 04:59:19 pm »

Thanks for the feedback.  We all gotta start somewhere.  Have been reading my ass off this last week and watching videos including Dave Rat's subwoofer series. I am going to follow up this post in the Lounge.  Just wanted to drop a "Thank You" in this thread for your responses.  I am learning a metric crap ton.

BTW I have considered renting but am several hours from an audio rental company of any significance.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 05:50:26 pm »

Hi Steve-

You're right, your posting probably belongs in the Lounge forum at this point, but the mods can move this thread later...

We all started somewhere.  Some of us have more.. uh.. chronology and can tell about using Marconi spark-gap wireless mics and using goats to pull AC feeder cable...  ;)

The real answer to your *business* question is in Ray's reply.  The "try it and see" answers to your tech questions are in Chris H and John H's replies.  You don't need to set up the whole rig, just 1 of each model of subwoofer, they can be adjacent or spread apart.  Using pink noise and an SPL meter, turn up only the amp channel for the sub on your left, turn it up comfortably loud and note the SPL on the meter.  Turn that amp channel down and turn up the other side until the SPL matches.  Without moving the SPL meter, turn up the first sub.  Did the SPL go down or up?  Did the tonality of the sub sound change?  Is there a "hole" in the LF when you stand equidistant between the subs (or seem to disappear, if adjacent)?  If the answers are up; no; and no, you can do the center cluster John H suggests.  If the answer is "down, maybe, and yes, you need to flip the polarity of ONE of the subs and repeat the experiment.

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Re: Outdoor sound setup.
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2017, 05:50:26 pm »


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